Moss Motors, Ltd

I just installed a new starter on my car thinking that the starter selnoid may have had a short in it,What is happen is when I turn the key on i get a spark and when i go to crank the car i have no spark, when i release the key it will spark again.This is what was going on before I changed the starter. Any advise would be greatly app.

                                                                Thanks Andy.

Andrew_

There should be a white wire with a light green stripe that runs from the positive terminal of the coil to the starter solenoid. All the brown wires go to one connection, a white and brown wire goes to another connection, and the white wire with a light green stripe goes to the third connection on the solenoid. I'm only looking at a wiring diagram and don't have a car in front of me so I can't be more specific than that. If you have the wires hooked up correctly maybe there is a break in the white wire with the light green stripe. Try hooking up a wire directly from the coil positive to the connection for the white wire with the light green stripe on the solenoid. Looking at the wiring diagram it looks like, in a pinch, you could hook the white wire with a light green stripe to the white and brown wire  but this isn't proper so I would hesitate.

Good Luck. I hope this helps!

LCJUTILA 

I ran a new wire from the positive side of the coil to the starter solenoid and have the same results as before.Any other ideas would be great.

Thanks Andy.

Can any one tell me where the starter relay,and ignition relay is?

Andrew-

What happens if you leave the white wire with the light green stripe connected to the starter solenoid and disconnect the other white wire with alight green stripe from the coil and try to start it? Does it spark while turning over then?

Also- Sounds like your starter relay is working fine. Otherwise the starter wouldn't work at all, to my way of thinking.

Looked at the starter on my Lotus- has three places for wires. Two on the end and one on the side. One of the end ones is big and has all the brown wires hooked to it. The post next to it is smaller and has the white wire w/ the light green stripe hooked to it. The brown wire w/ the white stripe is hooked to the side of the solenoid.

In a pinch you could hook the wire in question to the white wire w/ a red stripe that is located at the back of the ignition switch. This is the wire that activates the starter relay. It would really be better to find out the real problem though.

Good Luck!

LCJUTILA 

LCJUTILA

When I unhook the white wire with the green stripe from the coil I get no spark at all.

My starter has three post, one big one for the brown wires,a smaller one for the brown wire with the white stripe goes to the starter relay,and the smallest one has the white wire with the green stripe that goes to the pos. side of the coil

NO LUCK YET!!!!

ANDY

Mr. Johnson-

Are you one of those mystery posters who makes up a problem and then sits back while we all try to help, Laughing the whole time? I was just discussing the possibility with my lovely wife at dinner. Just kidding!

It sounds like you have the thing hooked up correctly and there is no short to the coil. Did you check to see that the posts on the solenoid are tight? Maybe one is shorting out to the body of the solenoid? I have to apologize, I had my MGB many years ago and whatever could go wrong did go wrong with it so I'm experienced but it's all from memory.  I remember the solenoid as not being put together that well and being too damn expensive on top of it. I remember the posts twisting and messing up connections if you didn't tighten them just right.Try doubling up on the brown wire with the white stripe by attaching the white wire with the green stripe to it. The brown with white wire energizes the solenoid while the car is starting so it should have power at the right time.. After the car starts and you allow the key to go to the running position the other coil wire will take over.

If all this fails the most simple solution is to run a wire directly from the positive terminal of the battery to the coil. Use a ten guage wire to ensure adequate current and put a switch and fuse in the circuit. The switch in the circuit will act as an anti-theft device because with the switch off the coil will be dead no matter what. Disconnect all other positive wires to the coil with this installation and rely soley on the direct wire from the battery to the coil to start the car. In order to start the car the switch will be put in the "on" position to complete the circuit. When you shut off the car it will be necessary to turn the switch off in order to not overheat the coil or burn the points.

Hmmmm, I just noticed there is a ballst resistor in the circuit to the coil from the fuse box that it would be a good idea to include. In order to include it you will need to pick up the white wire to the coil right as it comes out of the fuse box(It is white at that point according to the wiring diagram.). Make sure you get the right one, as there are two and one is for the fuel pump. Fun Fun Fun!

Anybody out there got any other ideas? 

LCJUTILA 

Andrew-

An additional thought/point. The reason that wire from the coil to the solenoid exists in the first place is so that a full 12 volts go to the coil on start-up. After the engine starts and the key is put to the"run" position the ballast resistor drops the voltage to the coil down to around ten volts while the current flows to the coil along the other wire.  If you run a wire directly to the coil as described in my previous post you will have only ten volts going to the coil at all times including start-up. I believe this should be sufficient though.

LCJUTILA
 

I wish this was a joke,because my wife is not happy with me that the car is not running and I gave it to her in April as a birthday gift.(don't ask me why I would do something like that) must be love?.

Now I have another problem. I went and got the 10 guage wire and a push button starter switch that I'm going to mount under the dash so we don't have to remember to shut the switch off after the engine starts.Before I installed the switch I wanted to make sure that I have 6-9 volts at the coil and when I went to turn the engine over, it would not. I turned the key several times and then it turnd over, released the key and now won't turn over again, you can here the starter relay kick in but will not turn over.Could this be a bad stater relay or a bad ignition switch?

By the way thanks for all the HELP!!!!!!          

Andy 

Andrew-

Ouch! I talked more than one old girlfriend into buying some British Sports Car or another and ended up  working on them and suffering the consequences. Well, I've been married for twenty three years and I've never bought my lovely wife one! I wonder if there's a connection?

I'm going to guess your solenoid is a piece of #@$%^! If it is, we've been chasing our tails and it could be that a good solenoid, properly connected and installed will solve all your problems with the car and then with your wife. 

So, how do we test it? You could remove it, then get a really big hammer and pulverize it to dust until your arm hurts while telling it exactly what you think of it.This would probably give you a brief moment of bliss. It's worked for me.

Or you could try hooking up a wire directly from the postive terminal of the battery to the terminal on the side of the soleniod where the brown and white wire goes. When you do this the solenoid will immediately activate and the motor will turn over so be careful. You won't actually hook up the wire so much as you will just touch it to the terminal. It will probably spark but good so it might startle you. If this doesn't activate the solenoid it may not be good. Remember in my earlier post how I said the solenoid was sensitive to having it's posts turned while installing it. This fouls up the connections inside. Maybe this is what happened. I remember doing this myself many years ago-Very frustrating. I also remember taking it apart and fixing it but that it wasn't easy and was questionable. It could be that it would be worth the marital bliss to try another new solenoid for dependability's sake.

Your button instead of switch idea is a good one.

Good Luck!
 

LCJUTILA 

I've only been married for 8 years to my lovely wife but I am a late bloomer i did not get married until i was 35 i wanted to make sure that i married the right women :)

Walk out of the house this morn. turned the key and the %^^&*%$  car turned over  i've tried 10-12 times and it turned over every time.

Not going to have time to work with it today, have to go to a birthday party and get baked out in the Southern Louisiana sun,but that's ok it's for my kids

write to you later, Andy

Andrew-

I think you mean WOMAN not WOMEN!

LCJUTILA 

AJ and LCJ,

I have tried to stay out of this thread so as not to be seen as stepping on anyone's toes, but really, the cheapest, most intuitive way to find out where electricity is and is not going is a device called the TEST LAMP. I have not seen one mentioned. Don't you think a lot of screwing around and extra work and wire and "buttons" and frustration might have been spared by the thoughtful implementation thereof?

Also, looking at the wiring diagram for your specific model might well show that there is a connector in the "booster" wire from the solenoid to the positive side of the coil. We have found this connector to be the problem in the past.

These starter motors are not so bad. Some rebuilders are. An MGB is not a Lotus.

Sorry, I just had to get that out. Good luck.

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Motorbill
From Lola to Land Rover, If it's British and has wheels, it's likely I've bloodied me knuckles thereupon

Motorbill-

Good grief! No need to 'stay out of anyones post". I think I asked for people to chime in a couple of times. Just relaying my personal experience and hoping someone else would relay theirs. As for an "MGB not being a Lotus" I think I'll give that comment all the respect it deserves...... O.K. done giving respect. I've owned both cars and it is disingenuous to insinuate there is any great difference in the starter motor set up of each car. Also, I made clear in my post that I was looking at my lotus to try to get some idea of the hook-up firsthand. Man brother, you must have had a tough week.

LCJUTILA 

LCJ,

Please consult your Funk & Wagnalls concerning the definition of disingenouous. I think you'll find that it's going a bit far. But, I'm beyond insult. Been around too long. You yourself stated that the lotus might not be the same. I don't have a wiring diagram for whichever Lotus you are referencing. Also, I take it your comment about respecting the statement comparing MGs and Loti was meant to elevate the qualities of the Lotus beyond the reproachability of the MG. Right now in my shop, we are completely overhauling the front and rear suspensions on a 1974 Europa.

This thing could surely not be defended in comparison to an MGTC with regard to durability. Good God, the inner drive yokes, which anchor the upper lateral suspension locator, are retained with roll pins! The yokes themselves were worn out and unavailable. I had to plate the splines and remachine them. The outer hub stub shafts were about to shed themselves of the wheel hubs. I had to machine a new adaptors for each side to firm things up. The conical washers were eaten to death. I'd call them "comical washers" myself. But what could you expect? this car had all of sixteen thousand original miles on the clocki! The mileage is accurate. It is owned by the original purchaser, who has had a hard time accumulating miles because of the doubtfull reliability and build quality of this vehicle.

Now, I'm not trying to judge too harshly here, because I know this car was meant as a lightweight special machine for those who had the understanding to own it. But really, in its day it cost a LOAD more than an MGB. ROLL PINS!! REALLY!!

Yeah, I had a tough week. No hard feelings. But, about that test lamp... 

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Motorbill
From Lola to Land Rover, If it's British and has wheels, it's likely I've bloodied me knuckles thereupon