Moss Motors, Ltd

Hi everyone:  Just getting started on installing the Moss Motors 5-speed transmission in my '51 TD, and the car is in a gazillion pieces.  Has anyone out there in cyberspace already done this project?  Any suggestions, or lessions learned the hard way?  So far, the instructions seem reasonable, although some photos would have been useful.

Fort Collins TD guy

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 I am thinking about doing the same thing to my 51 TD, Please keep us informed about how the install goes, and what if any major adjustments you had to make.

 

Rod

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I'm updating the instructions so they are a bit clearer. Please feel free to contact me directly if you have any questions and we can plow through any problems together. If you are willing to take pictures of your installation process, it would be a great help to future installers and I'll figure some way to make it worth your while. 

all the best 

 

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Kelvin Dodd
Global Sourcing Engineer
Moss Motors, Ltd.
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Disclaimer: Working on automobiles is inherently dangerous. Moss Motors, Ltd. is not liable for injury or damage due to incorrect installation or use of their products. All products are sold with the understanding that the safe and proper installation and use of the products is the customer’s responsibility. Follow factory workshop manual procedures and instructions, but use current shop safety standards and common sense. Some tasks will require professional advice or services which Moss Motors cannot provide.

Kelvin:  Hadn't thought about taking photos, but I'll put fresh batteries in the digital camera and fire away as I go.  Will send them to you as the project moves along.  I've thoroughly complicated things by deciding to lighten the flywheel as per the advice of Bill Wardlow, Head Kahuna at The Motorway, Inc., Fort Collins; and installing the Al Moss rear seal conversion kit - all at the same time. 

Sounds like more fun than any gear head should have at one time. Let us know how you get on.

 

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Kelvin Dodd
Global Sourcing Engineer
Moss Motors, Ltd.
Helpful Links:
Code of Conduct
FAQs

Disclaimer: Working on automobiles is inherently dangerous. Moss Motors, Ltd. is not liable for injury or damage due to incorrect installation or use of their products. All products are sold with the understanding that the safe and proper installation and use of the products is the customer’s responsibility. Follow factory workshop manual procedures and instructions, but use current shop safety standards and common sense. Some tasks will require professional advice or services which Moss Motors cannot provide.

I installed the Moss Rear Main Seal (and front seal) conversion kit. Had to have the flywheel machined to make it fit correctly but now IT DOES NOT LEAK ANY OIL WHATSOEVER out of the rear (0r front) seals. I am really proud of my MG-TD 1953 Non-Leaker. I was at the Clovis (CA) British Car Club show in Oct and was the ONLY MG-TD that did NOT leak oil. I was the hit of the show in that respect.
Mike Gaines
1953 MG-TD (41,000 original miles)

Early November update on the 5-speed conversion project:

   Assembled the new transmission to the new bell housing per instructions with no issues.  Stripped the old clutch operating hardware from the old transmission bell housing and relocated to the new one (perfect fit).  

   Did my best to set the car on fire while cutting the old rear tranmission mount brackets to the plan specs with the Roto-Zip cutoff saw.  No need to cut/grind the excess metal back to the crossmember surface - lots of clearance with the new rear mount.

  The next step is to bolt on the clutch assembly to the flywheel.  Advance Auto Parts has the clutch pilot tool for $2.  Since the flywheel is still being reground and the ring gear needs replacing, I'm as far as I can go for now.

   Notes on the Moss rear Seal kit:  The references to the Lock-tite products in the instructions are obsolete and need to be updated to current products.

   The crankshaft rear main bearing cap (to which the lower half of the new seal holder is bonded) was apparently cast by pre-Industrial Age Druid priests after an all-night ale binge.  The aft edge needs some serious milling to get it square with the block and crankshaft, and that's my next step!

To all,

I've put in a slew of these rear seal conversions and every one of them needed to have the rear main cap machined. I've accomplished it on a good size grinder with lots of stopping an checking and a pile and a half of nervous concentration, since it's always been on customer cars. Those days are just about over though, as I'm just about to take delivery of a mill. At Last!! I can make whole cars out of scrap steel and brass!!!! Bring on those Druids...

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Motorbill
From Lola to Land Rover, If it's British and has wheels, it's likely I've bloodied me knuckles thereupon

Turkey Day Update on the 5-speed transmission/Moss rear crankshaft seal conversion project:

Still waiting for the replacement ring gear for the flywheel.   Kelvin - any idea when they'll show up?  No further progress on the transmission per se - just tidying things up on the frame, flooring parts etc.  I must say that the factory-installed self-preservation system worked remarkably well - this leaky 55-year car has zero rust on the underside!

Notes on the rear seal conversion:  The Speedi-sleeve needs to be set overhanging the forward edge of the crackshaft flange by about 1/16".  The seal lip rides right at the foward edge of the crankshaft flange.

Contrary to Al Moss's instructions, do not do Step #16 (installing the rear main cap/seal holder assembly) until you have trial-fitted the flywheel, pins, and bolts and checked for interference with the new seal retainer.  You can't see anything, remove excess JB Weld or sealer, or check for flywheel pin/bolt protusion/interfence once the rear cap/seal holder assembly is installed.

Kelvin:  I highly recommend that the seal conversion instructions either be re-written or issued with a corrections page.  The first sentence of Step #13 needs to be moved to Step #14.  The last three sentences of Step #19 and the first three sentences of Step #20 need to be moved to just prior to Step #16.  What's left of Step #20 can be added to Step #19.  Steps #16 and 17 should be swapped.  Finally, the Lock-tite product references need to be updated.

Waiting on my ring gear ... 

*** and Kelvin,

I've had the same problem on some XPAG/XPEG engines wherein the seal wants to ride on the forward edge of the crankshaft (or speedi-sleeve if fitted). The solution I used was to build an aluminum ring about .065 thick and 5 inches O.D.(very approximate) with an I.D. of about 3.6 inches. This I did by screwing a piece of alum. to a chunk of 3/4 ply with eight screws, four of which would wind up outside the circle and four of which would end up just inside it. I then used an adjustable flycutter in a drill press with the wood clamped firmly down. The idea is to come up with a nicely finished ring which just slips into the assembled seal holder assembly. Install it just prior to installing the seal This positions the seal further rearward on the crank flange so you don't have to worry about the seal running on the ragged edge. I also had about .060" machined off the flywheel back face adjacent to the flange counterebore. You can have this done when you're having the flywheel resurfaced and, for god sake, lightened. This leaves plenty of room for the sleeve and the seal. It's easier than it sounds and neatly solves this problem IF you have it. Not all XPAG/XPEG motors are created equal, and for some this won't be an issue. But you should look for it and I believe you should always relieve the back of the flywheel to be on the safe side.Hope Iv'e helped.

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Motorbill
From Lola to Land Rover, If it's British and has wheels, it's likely I've bloodied me knuckles thereupon

Late January update on the TD 5-speed transmission conversion:  It's in!!  Long way to go before taking it out for a cruise, but the transmission, prop shaft, and engine are installed.  It's a bit of a squeeze, but it all seems to fit as advertised.  Removing the engine control stabilizer bracket (Moss 411-060) gave enough room to manuever the combined engine/transmission unit around the steering gear and thru the firewall opening.  The new bell housing fit perfectly to the engine block, and the new rear transmission mounting plate assembly bolted up as advertised.  Ended up with a 1/4" vertical clearance between the steering column and the oil pump - about what the vendor promised.  The new propshaft went on without having to grind off a bit of the rear axle pinion flange end (may be necessary according to the instructions).

Some minor glitches arose (there is no such thing as a simple bolt-on modification) ...  The new front engine mount was 1/8" too far aft for the bolt holes to line up with the front engine plate.  Easily fixed with a drill.   Since this car was T-boned on the right front fender (found the right frame rail still bent during restoration) sometime in the distant past, the dimension error may not be the vendor's fault.

The new speedometer cable is 12" longer than the original cable (Moss 331-150) so I'm going to have to be creative on where to take up the surplus cable without bends tighter than the minimum 6" radius specified in the instructions.  Can you just make a 12" loop with these things and stuff it under the dash with the rest of the wiring?

Next step on the list is re-installing the floorboards.  Apparently, they both must be trimmed a bit due to a slightly "fatter" gearbox profile.

Stay warm!

 

Dick,

You are very close to the incredible experience of driving your T series with a 5 speed. You will not be able to wipe the smile off your face! Just the silence in the cockpit will astound you!

Bob Doc

52 TD w/ sierra 5 speed

Thanks - I'm really looking forward to it.  Although the original trannie worked OK, it had "character" - hold the shifter in 1st as you accelerated so it wouldn't "pop" back into neutral, "take-it-slow" shifting, and lots of gear whine in 1-3.  But, hey - it's British!

Question:  How did you route the speedo cable to take up that extra 12"?  Still looking for ideas on that one ...

Hoping that global warming will melt the glacier growing in my driveway so I can head out for the maiden voyage when it's all back together!

Congratulations!! I've been contemplating the same for my '50 but I don't know if I have the know-how to do it myself. Sounds to me like alot of adjusting was needed to the plans. Enjoy.  Cheers-keith

"On the road again ..."  .  The TD's all back together and the weather allowed a quick cruise around town to see how I rate as a mechanic.  Nothing fell off,  broke, and no unplanned stops enroute!  It is SO nice to shift gears without pausing mid-shift, or to select first gear without completely stopping first.  The lowered noise level from the total lack of gear whine is wonderful!  5th gear drops the RPM by about 600.

Some general thoughts for those of you thinking of doing this project - if you do your own tune-ups, you can do this conversion.  After all, the TD is a primitive car, and it doesn't take much more than a set of Whitworth sockets, screwdrivers, engine hoist, 4 stands, and a rotary cutoff power tool.  I have no formal auto mechanics training - just a weekend gearhead/enthusiast.

The engine, new bell housing, Sierra gearbox, and new driveshaft fit together perfectly.  The replacement speedo cable is 12" longer than the original, which I managed to fit with a big "S" pattern under the dash.  Although the instructions said I may need to grind off a bit of the protruding rear axle pinion shaft, and the floorboards need a bit of trimming, neither was required for my TD.  The replacement ABS transmission cover needed a bit of trimming (easy to do) around the brake/clutch pedals "fume excluder" (the rubber thingie).  Contrary to the instructions, install the gear shifter assembly before you install the ABS cover, as you can't reach thru the hole to install the 3 bolts.  No problem installing the cover over the installed shifter.

The only major show-stopper was an interference between the new rear transmission mount and the Moss stainless steel exhaust pipe.  The aft 12" of the foward exhaust pipe has an outward bend to it, which put it directly on the right transmission mount clamp.  I had the local muffler shop cut off the curved 12", and weld in a straight piece ($20), which moved the pipe inboard enough (about 1") to clear the clamp.  Since I don't know if the Moss exhaust system precisely duplicates the routing of the original parts, and many cars out there are using exhaust pipes from the local muffler shop, this problem may be unique to just the Moss ss exhaust pipes.

A supplied gear casing/exhaust pipe mounting bracket would not fit to the casing, as a locating pin was welded 1/4" out of position.  I used a generic pipe hanger from the local auto shop instead.

Another minor issue arose with replacement carpeting.  Since the existing carpet on the transmission cover had the cutout for the dripstick access panel (no access panel or dipstick on the Sierra gearbox), I ordered a new carpet set from Moss (needed new stuff anyway).  Unfortunately, the new carpet set comes with the dipstick cutout  [:'(]  .  Had to patch in a piece to fill the hole.

The instructions say that the speedo will be off.  Once I get the XPAG back into tune, we'll go chase the new MINI and calibrate the TD's speedo, and I'll post those numbers here. 

By the way, the new 2007 MINI Cooper "S" with the turbo is fast!