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Five Speed Conversion

Last post 03-26-2008, 11:13 AM by KelvinD@Moss. 11 replies.
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  •  04-08-2007, 1:31 PM 6011

    Five Speed Conversion

    Well Gentlmen,

    I'm really getting into the innerworkings and tinkering of my first stab at MG. Great car and a great kick to drive. Thought I would throw out a couple of questions though. First, This car screems for a fifth gear, is there a conversion that can be acomplished? I have seen a system using a B210 transmission however, from what I read, the system will not work on a 76 MKIII. Second, the prior owner added a Weber conversion without changing the exhaust manifold. Any suggestions on which way to go on the car, Moss monza muffler system or exhaust manifold and possible new exhuast system. The goal is to cut down the back pressure as the car runs like a top otherwise.

     

  •  04-08-2007, 4:58 PM 6023 in reply to 6011

    Re: Five Speed Conversion

    I don't know about the chances for a five speed for a '76. Maybe an overdrive tranny from an early Spit?

    As for the exhaust, Go for a header and free flow system such as the Monza.


    "Cogito ergo Zoom"
    "Love your freedom? Thank a Veteran"
  •  04-09-2007, 8:57 AM 6038 in reply to 6023

    Re: Five Speed Conversion

    Thanks for the feedback, Now just have to see which yr spit tranny will work. I put a spit engine in an old herald I had when I was stationed at Bethesda Hosp in MD back before time began.  Now that I'm really getting into these vehicles I'm finding it amazing how much different and alike they are.

    Thanks again

  •  04-09-2007, 10:18 AM 6041 in reply to 6011

    Re: Five Speed Conversion

    The later model Midgets used the 1500cc engine from the Spitfire, so the Spit transmission will bolt up. Installing an O/D does take some modification to the transmission tunnel and the fabrication of a new transmission mounting. It can be done without welding, but if you have access to a welder then I'd advise closing the ends of the central crossmember where it has to be removed for clearance. The mounting is easily fabricated from a piece of 1/4" steel plate, drilled and bolted to the floor pan and mounting the transmission mount. Wiring is pretty straight forward, most use either a switch on the dash or an unused portion of the directional switch. You could also use the knob mounted switch if you happen to find one that is in good working order.  There is an area in the tunnel that needs to be widened, but this can be done by using a scissors jack to spread the tunnel slightly.

    I think there is a 5 speed conversion for these cars using the Ford type 9 transmission, but I'm not sure.


    '73 Midget (V6)
    '59 MGA (I6) under construction

    "There is a fine line between a hobby and mental illness"
  •  04-12-2007, 12:57 PM 6155 in reply to 6011

    Re: Five Speed Conversion

    Here's a link for 5 speed conversion package - however he just sold his last kit.

    http://www.quantumechanics.com/categories.php?op=newindex&catid=5#

    The PO owner of my 79 also had installed a weber using existing manifold however I'm in the process of installing dual HS4's and replacing the front pipe losing the catalytic converter. Also running monza exhaust.


    Bud's British Garage.com

    1970 MGB GT
    1979 Midget
  •  04-27-2007, 12:34 PM 6454 in reply to 6155

    Re: Five Speed Conversion

    But wait, there's more!

    I'm pretty sure Moss Motors (I have no affiliation with the company) will be able to get you a kit. Talk to Kelvin.  Kelvin?

    Pierce Manifolds also has one.

    And you can always go to Frontline Spridgets (GB).

    http://www.mgcars.org.uk/frontline/gearbox.htm

    Looks like them all use the Ford box.  And all are "drop-in", more or less.  Minimal modifications, if any.

    I'm checking out the Frontline kit for my '1500 midget.  Drivig 100 miles/day, 4500rpm gets to be tiresome.  Given gasoline prices in So. Cal ;-).  And the 7.5 gallon gas tank.

    Mechanic talking to Moss and Pierce.

    Things to consider beyond the kit price: vendor reputation, installation complexity, installation cost, parts availability, manuals.

    I figure $3,000 installed would be about it.

  •  12-23-2007, 11:14 AM 12169 in reply to 6011

    Re: Five Speed Conversion

    In regards to the Type 9 Ford 5-speed conversion; I've heard some mixed opinions on them. Things like transmission noise, trying to actually find a decent unit here in the 'States (Merkur XR4TI, some Ford Capris and 4-banger Mustangs), relocating the shifter, etc, all seem to point towards a big hassle trying to fit one.

    There's a company in Australia that uses a Toyota transmission, but I can't remember the name of it. Again, there's considerable modification to both the transmission and car to fit one.

    In my case, I scored a 1275cc "A+" engine from a Metro Turbo, complete (even has the 11-stud head!) with new Venolia forged pistons and boring already done (needs align-bored, however), all for $75, sans the front engine plate. I'll be installing this engine, along with Moss' supercharger kit and Rivergate's 5-speed conversion, this spring. Again based on all I've heard and asked about, the Rivergate kit is the way to go, and I can speak firsthand about how comprehensive and complete the kit is... but there's still a couple of issues with it, good as it is.

    Anybody need a freshly overhauled and blueprinted Triumph 1500 and transmission (first gear synchro needs to be replaced...)? Less than 5,000 miles on it now!

    Rivergate's kit directly fits the car, with no modification whatsoever, and now includes a badly-needed rubber-type rear main seal conversion. The issue is; finding the correct model 60A Datsun 5-speed, found in the late '79 through '82 Datsun 210 (NOT the B210... that's the type 59A transmission, which is much bigger and requires a great deal more work to fit). The guy I bought my transmission from is in California, and last I knew, has four or five more of these transmissions already removed from the cars, steam-cleaned, and ready to ship. I can provide his details if you're interested. The second issue is Rivergate says you're unable to use the stock reverse light switch. I can now understand why, as the switch itself is about an inch and a quarter long! It'll hit the side of the transmission tunnel. I'll fiddle around and see if I can't modify the tunnel slightly to allow for clearance, and post details of my progress/failure. I really don't want to run a separate switch for backup lights!

    Alternatively, you could also swap in the later Datsun A14 or A15 engine (almost a direct knock-off of the Austin/BMC engine), along with the 5-speed. I understand it's a very simple swap, and the Datsun engine is good for 100hp or so, right out of its original home! Parts are pretty widely available, and there's no shortage of performance goodies. To a further benefit, the Datsun engine has proven to be very durable and reliable.

    Anyway, the biggest benefit to the Datsun unit is its weight and durability! The complete transmission, with all the associated hardware and oil, weighs just about 60lbs! That's dramatically lighter than the Triumph trans and bellhousing, and notably lighter than the stock A-series 'rib-case'... and all the gears are synchro'd. My transmission got a teardown and inspection the same evening it showed up on my doorstep. I'm happy to report the internals are in immaculate shape, showing only a marginal amount of wear! Overall, the quality of these transmissions is outstanding.


    It's cold, damp, dark, and drafty with the top up and headlights on... British motoring at its best!
  •  03-21-2008, 8:04 AM 13456 in reply to 12169

    Re: Five Speed Conversion

    MGWolf, could I get those details for the ready to ship 5 speeds?
    Dave Kiernan

    www.airforce.com
    www.dosomethingamazing.com
  •  03-21-2008, 10:52 AM 13463 in reply to 13456

    Re: Five Speed Conversion

    Yeah, I'd like to know about them too. We're doing a Bugeye right now which wants one. Use my private mail function if you like.

    Thanks


    Motorbill
    From Lola to Land Rover, If it's British and has wheels, it's likely I've bloodied me knuckles thereupon
  •  03-21-2008, 11:09 AM 13467 in reply to 13463

    Re: Five Speed Conversion

    Moss is now tied in with Frontline, so all of the Frontline Spridget parts will be available from Moss Motors in the US including the full range of 5 speed conversion kits. The weakness of the dollar does really hammer the costs, but for a complete ready to bolt in, well engineered kit it's still better than trying to cobble something up.

    It'll be a couple of weeks before we get the web pages updated with the new products, since I'm still in the middle of building part numbers. If anyone wants more information, please contact me directly.

    regards


    Kelvin Dodd
    Global Sourcing Engineer
    Moss Motors, Ltd.
    Helpful Links:
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    Disclaimer: Working on automobiles is inherently dangerous. Moss Motors, Ltd. is not liable for injury or damage due to incorrect installation or use of their products. All products are sold with the understanding that the safe and proper installation and use of the products is the customer’s responsibility. Follow factory workshop manual procedures and instructions, but use current shop safety standards and common sense. Some tasks will require professional advice or services which Moss Motors cannot provide.
  •  03-25-2008, 6:28 AM 13530 in reply to 13467

    Re: Five Speed Conversion

    Are you stocking their products, or will they be special order only?

    BritishCarForum.com
  •  03-26-2008, 11:13 AM 13563 in reply to 13530

    Re: Five Speed Conversion

    Trevor: We want to stock as many as possible, but with the current exchange rate they are all pretty pricey. We will carry at least the 1275 and 1500 5 speed conversions in stock. Figure that any other products that prove popular will be stocked after the first SPO.
    Kelvin Dodd
    Global Sourcing Engineer
    Moss Motors, Ltd.
    Helpful Links:
    Code of Conduct
    FAQs

    Disclaimer: Working on automobiles is inherently dangerous. Moss Motors, Ltd. is not liable for injury or damage due to incorrect installation or use of their products. All products are sold with the understanding that the safe and proper installation and use of the products is the customer’s responsibility. Follow factory workshop manual procedures and instructions, but use current shop safety standards and common sense. Some tasks will require professional advice or services which Moss Motors cannot provide.