Moss Motors, Ltd

Thanks, Motorbill.

And again, thanks for your help.

zach

Help!

The binding is back! If you remember, I replaced the old master cylinder with a new one because the original was worn out and I installed new hoses and flushed the lines to the front calipers. That's when the binding of the right front caliper started. I replaced the original calipers with two new ones and the problem persisted. The right one was leaking from a joining seam, so I replaced it with another one. The problem seemed to go away, but in the past month it has been slowly returning until today, as I was slowing for a turn, the right front grabbed. What else can I do.

zach

zach,

Considering all that has gone before, there is no rational explanation that is consistent with an actual defect in the braking system. Those who are new to this thread should make a sandwich and sit down to read the whole thing! I'm perplexed. Are you sure you don't have a bent spindle? How about a damaged front subframe or other suspension component? I certainly wish I could see it. How far are you from Ft. Collins, Colorado? The Autumn is beautiful here...

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Motorbill
From Lola to Land Rover, If it's British and has wheels, it's likely I've bloodied me knuckles thereupon

Well, if I move to Tulsa, OK, I'll be a little closer. But, Kentucky is a bit far. I don't think it is a bent spindle, but a Moss Technician suggested it might be a bad wheel bearing. I'm going to replace the wheel bearings and oil seal on that wheel and see what happens. If it doesn't fix it, I might just drive out to Colorado!

zach

This morning, I had the opportunity to check out the right front wheel. When checking for play, there is definitely some in-and-out play. Although the bearings look okay, I went ahead and replaced the bearings, races, and will install a new seal. There are two shims installed. I don't have a micrometer, so don't know what the sizes are. If both are installed, the wheel spins freely but there is a lot of endplay. If I install either shim alone, the wheel won't spin. I probably need a shim somewhere in between, but would this excessive endplay cause the binding that I am experiencing?

zach

zach,

I'm afraid the best I can do for an answer is ...maybe. I can't tell how much play you have there. The shims are not expensive. Get yourself a selection of them. If you have no precision measuring equipment, that's OK. What you are looking for in terms of end float is the classic "definate but minimal". In other words, there should be no binding, but there should be no clunking either. If you can feel just a tiny bit of play you are doing alright. By the way, the correct procedure is to do all your adjusting with no grease in place, but just a coat of oil. When the correct measurement is obtained, you are to disassemble everything, pack with grease, and reassemble. If you don't stick strictly to this, I won't tell. I just thought I'd mention it for those looking in. When we install new bearings in my shop we follow this directive from the manual though.

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Motorbill
From Lola to Land Rover, If it's British and has wheels, it's likely I've bloodied me knuckles thereupon

Motorbill,

Of the two shims, one appears to be .030" and the other about .010". Either one by itself will cause the bearing to drag. I guess an assortment of the thinner shims should result in no binding/clunking. I'm going to order some from Moss, and since the minimum order is $10, I'll go ahead and order an oil flex line (engine block to oil gauge pipe), since mine is leaking.

zach

Good morning, Motorbill.

Here is the latest in the saga of the recalcitrant brake.  One of the things that I have been told to check was the wheel bearing end play. There was a significant amount of end play, so I ordered an assortment of shims from Moss (fast service, by the way) and worked with it until there was little play when I attempted to move the hub in and out. A test drive followed and, although there was a little pull to the right, it seemed to go away. As I was pressed for time, I put her in the garage and didn’t drive again until today.

For the first mile or so, there was nothing. Then, as I approached a stop sign, I applied the brakes and I heard a “clunk” and then the right front brake grabbed and pulled to the right. I continued the test drive with the pull being anywhere from a violent jerk and tire screech, to a gentle pulling, to just normal braking. And at one time I heard the "clunk" and felt it through the brake pedal.

This is getting REALLY frustrating. I have checked the right front suspension for damaged and/or worn parts and have even replaced the bushings to no avail. You have mentioned a bent spindle, but I think you had told me how to check for that and the results were negative. I've heard that a problem that manifests itself in the right brake could actually be a result of a problem in the left. Can that be the case here?

zach

zach,

I doubt it in  this case, especially if the right brake is actually locking up. We know through bleeding that the left caliper is getting a fluid impulse, don't we? The clunk noise intrigues me, though. Tell me, is the steering wheel trying to pull out of your hands to the right when the bind or the locking takes place?

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Motorbill
From Lola to Land Rover, If it's British and has wheels, it's likely I've bloodied me knuckles thereupon

Bill,

Of course it's been a while, but I'm sure the left is getting "fluid impulse" as when the car is jacked up, the wheel spun, and the brake applied, the wheel stops. So, without actually checking (and I was thinking today about doing that again, by the way and I may still do it), I would say that, yes, the left brake is working as it should. As for the steering wheel trying to pull out of my hands, it does. And the degree of pull is related to the amount of binding. If the binding is so severe that the tire screechs, then the "pull" of the steering wheel is more violent. If the binding of the brake is not so severe, it might manifest itself in the gentle pulling of the steering wheel to the right; if that makes any sense. Everyone who I ask about this says that it cannot be the master cylinder. Can it be possible that the new hose on that side was defective and is somehow not allowing brake fluid to release from the caliper? I'm clutching at straws here.

zach

zach,

It's beginning to seem like straws are all we have left! As to the hose, I doubt it's the problem, but anything's possible. I'm beginning to wonder about alignment issues. Have you checked, or had checked, the toe-in? When you are driving on a level surface, with no crown, (the road, not you...) does the car wander to the right with no hands on the wheel? Is the steering wheel centered?

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Motorbill
From Lola to Land Rover, If it's British and has wheels, it's likely I've bloodied me knuckles thereupon

Bill,

I've owned this "B" for less than a year and when I purchased it, I replaced the tie rod ends, but neglected to have the alignment checked at that time. Later, I had the alignment checked and adjusted, but I would have to go back and compare receipts to try to determine whether the alignment and the appearance of the brake problem coincide. As for the steering wheel being centered, yes, it is, and I don't notice any drifting to the right when driving down the interstate with no hands. I'm taking Wednesday and Thursday off from work to try to get as much of the house painted as I can before the cold weather sets in. I may just take her in to have the front end alignment checked. I'll let you know what I find out. Thanks for hanging in there on this.

zach

motorbill,

This past week, I was in Tucson on a business trip. Got stuck in Atlanta overnight when our Delta airplane broke down at 1 Friday afternoon, and just got home about noon today. I went straight to the garage and did a little on the 'B'. Before I left last week, I swapped the left and right front brake hoses to see if there was a problem with the hose itself. I bled the brakes and took the car for a run. Initially, she was okay, but after driving in stop and go traffic in town, the right front brake started grabbing again; badly. The brake lines on the left and right are both good, with no dents and no obstructions. The brake hoses are good and the calipers have been replaced with new; the right one twice. If the brake master cylinder is not at fault, what is left? You mentioned alignment and the spindle (I assume that is the same as the king pin?). How badly worn does the king pin need to be in order to cause binding?

zach

zach,

The kingpin and spindle are separate parts. The spindle, or swivel axle, rotates on the kingpin, which is supported and connected to the upper and lower A arms. Of course the upper A arm is comprised of the shock absorber arms.

I've not experienced a situation in which wear in the front suspension has caused brake binding. The master cylinder itself cannot cause a problem with just one brake. The problem, if it is in the system, has to be some place AFTER or AT the junction of the right and left front brake lines. Perhaps you should find that spot and work from there. I have to say, however, that it seems like we've been here before.

I dearly wish I could see this car. I feel there is something subtle which is out of whack here.

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Motorbill
From Lola to Land Rover, If it's British and has wheels, it's likely I've bloodied me knuckles thereupon

motorbill,

Hope I'm not interrupting your vacation.

I'm pretty sure we have been here before, and that is what is so frustrating. I'm of half a mind to drive it out there to your shop! When I swapped the brake hoses out this last time, after bleeding the right caliper the right-hand hub spun freely. After bleeding the left caliper, the right caliper didn't spin as freely. I assume that is because the fluid to the right caliper isn't releasing fully. I'm going to go down to the garage tonight and check it over again to see what I'm missing.

zach