Moss Motors, Ltd

You've all had good things to say.

I started thanking you all by name but the list got too long!

Some points I should have made.

Motorbill might have assumed I drag race with my zeal for power. On the contrary, I only run tracks in which I can turn left and right. I understand the fundamentals of suspension design as I'm actually fairly close to bringing a different kind of coil over suspension to market for the early Mustangs. The stock cars have awful camber curves, bumpsteer and an unworkable spindle. I understand that we need brakes at the end of the straightaway. It's just a little more exciting coming into corner 2 at 140 than 80mph! I certainly can't disagree that a well balanced "slower" car can be faster around the track than an unbalanced car with horsepower. It takes some serious brakes to handle those decleration rates. My track car is 65 fastback -- one I converted from a coupe. Interesting conversion. It's not quite done, but demonstrates either that I'm crazy or willing to tackle almost anything. You may well cringe, but it took a lot of willpower to not turn this car into a Tiger/Cobra wannabe.

An 1800 bored .060 over is about 1868, so we're getting there. This engine is fairy square (3.22bx3.5s), but without getting into rod length, big and small end sizes, etc I can't hazard a guess as to what other car's rods might fit. A "long rod" conversion might give this thing some more poop by increasing dwell time. I applaud Underdog for trying. Are the flows of an aluminum comparable to a ported and re-valved 1800? Is the Mikuni a 45 carb too?

More later -- time for bed.

 

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59 MGA 1500 -- 3rd in the restoration queue

I'm building a house and restoring one too many cars, so I can go off on long tangents without coming back.

I was hoping for some tech on the various heads.

The MGA (whichever year is best); the various MGBs (incl the big valve) and the new aluminum. Is there any flow data on these? I'd like to run them through a desktop dyno.

 

Heck, if it were cost effective and the parts weren't so rare I'd consider building a twin cam for this car.

Any data on cost to do that?

Hmmm -- I'm a real Ford guy -- wonder if a twin cam Ford fits in there?

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59 MGA 1500 -- 3rd in the restoration queue

Boss: I don't know about a Ford, but I'm planning on fitting an 1800cc Miata motor into one of my basket cases. I've always wanted an MGA twincam.

I havn't seen any flow data on the different heads that would be suitable for your use with a desk top dyno. All of the heads can be improved with some judicial work as the motors were cheap and only had rudimentary port shaping. Even the cross flow and alloy heads only have simple machining to keep the costs down. The MG market is very small, so production run costs are high.

The alloy heads are a good place to start as they are fairly clean and easy to modify with hand tools. The 73-74 stock heads had slightly larger intake valves, but you can install even larger Rimflo valves if you are into spending the money. The steel seats in the alloy heads can be opened up enough to fit the 73-74 intake valves but I'm not sure if larger Rimflo ones will do much for you as they are going to be shrouded.  Based on your needs, I'd suggest a +60 1800 with the 8.8:1 pistons. Get an alloy head, more for the weight savings than anything else, then have it cleaned up a bit. Be careful though, they can sometimes have core shift and any radical machining could get into the water jacket. Don't increase the compression ratio,  because if this was my car I'd be dropping a Moss supercharger in it and be wearing a big grin.  

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Kelvin Dodd
Global Sourcing Engineer
Moss Motors, Ltd.
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Disclaimer: Working on automobiles is inherently dangerous. Moss Motors, Ltd. is not liable for injury or damage due to incorrect installation or use of their products. All products are sold with the understanding that the safe and proper installation and use of the products is the customer’s responsibility. Follow factory workshop manual procedures and instructions, but use current shop safety standards and common sense. Some tasks will require professional advice or services which Moss Motors cannot provide.

Moto Bill,

Are you a member of the BMTA? If you are I hope to see you in Tampa in January.

Deluxetuck 

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Tucker J. Madawick

I have to agree with MotorBill most people get too wrapped up in hp figures, and forget about the rest. Theres a WHOLE LOT more to going fast than hp. More power is not a bad thing at all (beter to have some in reserve, than to wish for more when you need it), but it won't always make you faster, sometimes it just gets you into trouble faster (or breaks more parts keeping you in the garage more). You just need enough for the chassis/driveline, make the chassis work better, and the driveline stronger at the weak pionts, then you can add more power to suit, and so on. I autocross my "B" and even though i've got just about the lowest hp (and just about the oldest)car there, I'm still faster than half the "modern", more powerful cars that show up.

   To answer the original question I think a supercharger w/sensible motor should be considered for more reliable and more USEABLE power on the street (more power through the whole rpm range), over alum head and all the stuff to go with it to make the power you want. The cost would be similar (if not a little cheaper) when your done, and you would have more torque, which is what really makes the car accelerate anyway,not horsepower.

I agree that a supercharger with sensible motor should be reliable and give more usable power on the street. Check out the photo section for what I'm talking about.

Please note, no salvagable MGA's were destroyed.

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Kelvin Dodd
Global Sourcing Engineer
Moss Motors, Ltd.
Helpful Links:
Code of Conduct
FAQs

Disclaimer: Working on automobiles is inherently dangerous. Moss Motors, Ltd. is not liable for injury or damage due to incorrect installation or use of their products. All products are sold with the understanding that the safe and proper installation and use of the products is the customer’s responsibility. Follow factory workshop manual procedures and instructions, but use current shop safety standards and common sense. Some tasks will require professional advice or services which Moss Motors cannot provide.

I know Kelvin loves his supercharger but here's my ideas on a fun & FAST MGA.

I'll just give you the specs on my personal '62 MGA: everything bolt in, no mods to car:

Engine: 1845 cc MGB 5 main (+.040), D-9 cam, balanced, 18 lb. flywheel, large valve head with hardened seats, ported and polished (Biggest gains are in head work). Cooper S distributor. Maniflow exhaust header for the MGA- another big gain. 1 1/2" HS-4s re-jetted.

Currently running a MGA gearbox with 1967 MGB layshaft and second gear. 3.9:1 rear end in the MGA differential (top speed 126 Mph recorded at Portland International Raceway). Haven't installed a 5-speed Hi-Gear box yet, main gains will be: its a lot quieter, second to third gear is closer and first gear is sychro.

5.5"x15" magnesium wheels with 205x60 tires. MGB front suspension and brakes. Stock shocks and springs. Handles with the best!

It's a Miata beater, been driving it since 1970. Totally a street car with top, sidescreens etc and weighs in at 2,240 lbs. Laps Portland International Raceway at the same speed as VP-1 MGB's and Spridgets. Over 300,000 miles with my butt in the left seat! Most fun I have short of a full racecar!!

Keith Ansell

Owner, Foreign Parts Positively www.ForeignPartsPositively.com

 

Keith has a nice set up - the work has to centre in the heads on these cars, and even the modern crossflow is inferior to the old HRG units, and would need reworking to flow decently.

 You've had some good advice.  The supercharger is instant bolt-on power equivalent to what you'd get with the same sort of money spent on the head and the rest of the engine, and many people like the appearance as well.

 

If you go the old way instead of supercharging, you'll be sending your head (whether stock or crossflow) off to Hap or Sean or whoever to get done properly, buying new pistons (I suggest no more than 10:1 for street) and thinking about carbs - the 1 3/4" SUs are actually a better choice for a hot street engine but many people opt for the flashier Weber, which does a good job - once you get it set up specifically to your engine.  OK if you have a Weber expert handy, but hours of frustration otherwise.

I'd forget about the Twin Cam MG option. While the head is far, far better than any pushrod option, the core engine will set you back $5-6000 and then you start on the build.

I've attached a picture of my race engine - they certainly look nicer than any pushrod too, IMHO!