Moss Motors, Ltd

A rumble in my front end (that is to say, my CAR'S front end), was diagnosed by a mechanic buddy as worn steering rack bushings. He jacked up my '68 Sprite and then manually lifted one of the tires to show me where the "slop" was, and I did see the play. He suggested to either replace them, or cut a strip of rubber from an inner tube and wrap the bushing. Since replacement steering rack bushings are unavailable, I proceeded with the latter of his suggestions.   

Here now, is the rub! Having placed the rubber between the bushing and support bracket, as I tightened the two bolts that pull the two bracket parts together, the rubber that I added is prohibiting the two bracket parts to seat perfectly together. My feeler gauge tells me that the space between the mating surfaces is about .2mm (.0007 inches), and I dare not torque any further.

After thinking about this whole scenario, I have a few questions that I'd like to answer BEFORE I put the radiator and grill back. Since the play exists between the rack and the bushing (inside diameter), will adding "meat" to the outside diameter (between the bushing and the bracket) actually do any good? Is there a better way to do this? Has anyone any experience with this problem?

Looking forward to your input....

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On their death bed, nobody ever said, "Gee I wish I'd spent more time at work!"

'68 Sprite 1275
'76 Midget 1500

Hi davey,

I'm not familiar with the parts you are describing, but is this a bushing that holds the column? Is it a metal sleeve within a rubber casing? If so, then packing the outer rubber with extra material won't change the sleeve diameter. In turn, that won't cure the problem you have with unwanted clearence between two metal parts...  This problem might be addressed by adding metal shims around the shaft to take up the play. I recently took this approach to fix a sloppy telescope mount, to good effect, but hesitate to suggest it's application to the steering mechanism of a car unless you could be sure it would and could not cause a dangerous condition.

 If I've misinterpreted all this, then please ignore my contribution

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I want my MGB

Ed et ALL,

The bushings/brackets hold the steering rack to the front cross-member of the frame.

I like your idea of placing shims between the rack and inside surface of the bushings if this is at all possible. I'll take a look, but I'd sure like to hear from someone who's had and solved this problem.

Thanks

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On their death bed, nobody ever said, "Gee I wish I'd spent more time at work!"

'68 Sprite 1275
'76 Midget 1500

Is this the parts you are referring to?  When I disassembled my steering gear, there were fiber shims between the clamp ID and the rack OD.  the material looked much like fibrous gasket paper, so that's what I used when it was reinstalled.  I don't recall the thickness I used.  Measure the ID of the bolted clamp and the OD of the rack and calculate the thickness needed and allow for several mils compression.  Using rubber should also work, but you shouldn't use a material that is too thick or you might crack the clamp when tightening.

 Hope this helps.

Aha! a picture truly is worth 1000 words. I understand the problem now (I think). Since you are not directly involved with the moving parts of the steering, it would seem that any well conceived shim arrangement could solve your problem.

Let us know how it goes,

Ed

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I want my MGB

YES COLINAZ8!

Kudos for the photo! That is exactly what I am talking about.

I did find some remnants of the fiber material and it did remind me of gasket material as well. Since you used gasket material while I used rubber, then I guess that I should be fine. The rubber did compress and ooze out when I torqued down the bolts, so I think it must have found it's "seat".

I'll go ahead and reassemble the car, and unlike all too many, report back with my results!

Thank you greatly guys!

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On their death bed, nobody ever said, "Gee I wish I'd spent more time at work!"

'68 Sprite 1275
'76 Midget 1500

davey,

I'm still trying to wrap my imagination around why it was necessary to jack up the car and move a TIRE up and down to show this. All you should have to do is grab the rack and wiggle it around to see this problem. In fact, I wonder just how moving the tire up and down even affected the rack mount, as there are ball jointed ends on the tie rod that connects the steering to the swivel axle. Now, make sure that the rack MOUNT is the real problem. The actual rack internal bushing (on the passenger side) is something to check, and this is also simple. Steer the car about half its total travel to the passenger side. Now lay down in your good clothes and grab the rack gear itself through the boot. Get a firm grip on it and try to move it in an up and down plane. If you feel anything appreciable, the rack bushing itself is a problem. The other end has no bushing like this as it is trapped by the pinion shaft, damper, and spring.

Hey, how you been? We need to think up some more of "life's persistent questions, eh?" 

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Motorbill
From Lola to Land Rover, If it's British and has wheels, it's likely I've bloodied me knuckles thereupon

Ahh...All is now right with the world! There's nothing like getting demeaned by motorbill when you're already down! I Feel so much better!

After writing "up and down" in my original post, I realized that the play was actually seen best when the tire was pushed IN and OUT, (er...at least I think so anyway?).

motorbill66, your diagnostic test sounds like good advice that I assure you, I WILL perform just as soon as get some good clothes on, perhaps this weekend.

A very busy week at work and family obligations has delayed my reassembling the Sprite, so this advice comes in a timely fashion. I will report my findings.

I DO have another question by the way. Why do highway drivers in the slow lane, always speed up when they see you trying to merge into traffic from the ON ramp? Is it a psychological, spacial domain issue, or are they just illuminating their perceived superiority, because THEY were there FIRST?

Whaddu think? 

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On their death bed, nobody ever said, "Gee I wish I'd spent more time at work!"

'68 Sprite 1275
'76 Midget 1500

I'm not sure if they always actually speed up.  Often I think this is a just a misperception.  But assuming someone does speed up then I believe it's primarily "their perceived superiority, because THEY were there FIRST".  At least that's how I feel when someone is merging into traffic and I'm the one on the highway.  The person who is "merging" into moving traffic is expected to adjust their speed to blend in.  It's irritating when someone is merging into traffic and doesn't accelerate sufficiently, thereby expecting the existing traffic to adapt to them.  If the merging car doesn't or can't accelerate sufficient to get in front of an existing car, they should fall back and merge behind.  However, in heavy traffic with someone close behind you, there is  nothing to do but slow down and let a slow merging vehicle in ahead of you, knowing they can't fall in behind.  When someone fails to adjust their speed to merge into existing traffic, it reminds me of the social-political attitude of entitlement.  A merging driver who feels entited to get in front of me, even if they are going slower, will trigger the "I was there first" reaction in me every time.  It's not just an emotional response either, it's the law.  The merging car should blend in to the existing traffic.

yeah,

That's an annoying driving habit, but it's inverse is the one that get's my 90W thinned out. I'll be travelling along at the speed limit on an interstate and nearing an exit. (You already see this coming, don't you?) Suddenly, even if I'm towing a big old trailer, someone  flies past me, cuts into my lane, causing me to hit the anchors, and then proceeds up the exit ramp. Then comes the kicker. I look in my rear view mirror....... and there's nobody for half a mile. Had they been held out of the lane by traffic I wouldn't be happy about the move, but I'd understand what had happened. When they could far more easily, economically, and safely slowed and exited behind my vehicle's passage, I'm P O'd, and baffled. But yes, I think the explanation is about the same. At least that's my working theory.

I really think people drive around subconciously keeping a mental score of how many cars they've passed, or "bested". Passing you in this stupid way means they get to "score" one more time before they get off the "speedway". This is absolutely common out here along I 25 on the front range of the Rockies. I bet you get the same thing where you are, right? RELAX!, people.

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Motorbill
From Lola to Land Rover, If it's British and has wheels, it's likely I've bloodied me knuckles thereupon

Well, there's no play whatsoever under that boot. The car is on jack-stands, and I grabbed and shook the guts under that boot. Unfortunately, there IS play (once again) associated with the right side wheel bearings. I have replaced these bearings TWICE already in the last 10,000 miles or so! This set only has about 2000 miles on them, and yes, I know the right way to install them.

I guess it is possible that the worn steering rack mounts may have destroyed another set of bearings, but I just don't know.

HELP!

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On their death bed, nobody ever said, "Gee I wish I'd spent more time at work!"

'68 Sprite 1275
'76 Midget 1500

Hi Davey. I'm a bit confused, but then you know that it's a normal state for me anyway. You started out by mentioning a rumble in the front. I've heard of a loose rack bushing, internal or external, causing a clunk, but never a rumble. That sounds more like a bearing noise and now you say you have play in the bearings again, maybe that was the problem all along? There's been a lot of posts about Spridget wheel bearings over the past year on all the forums. What it seems to boil down to is that the newer bearings being made are not as strictly controled in dimension as far as thickness as the old bearings were and even if properly installed with the spacers etc, still wind up having some play in them. In many cases in GB, enough play to fail MOT with brand new bearings. Seems the soulution is to buy a "face adjusted" bearing at some ridiculously high price that are precision machined to fit and apply just the right side load to the balls to eliminate the play while still not overly side loading them.  The other solution is to convert to tapered roller bearings, but that has other problems associated with that conversion as well. Nothing that can't be overcome, but still keeping the front wheels rolling on our little cars is getting a bit more complicated. If you're interested in the information I've come up with for the tapered roller conversion drop me a line and I'll send it to you.

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'73 Midget (V6)
'59 MGA (I6) under construction
'73 Lotus Europa

"There is a fine line between a hobby and mental illness"

I'd go for the tapered roller bearing conversion. We've installed one on the project Bugeye we're doing, and it seems pretty straightforward, though not as cheap as the ball bearings. By the way, did you observe the "thrust" and "non-thrust" sides of the ball bearings? Or do they still even come that way????

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Motorbill
From Lola to Land Rover, If it's British and has wheels, it's likely I've bloodied me knuckles thereupon

mb66, Yes, they do have the thrust markings and I did observe them when installing the bearings.

BTW, when I performed your "grab the boot test", the car was on jackstands....should I repeat it with compressed springs?

Also, where can I get a set of those bearings?

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On their death bed, nobody ever said, "Gee I wish I'd spent more time at work!"

'68 Sprite 1275
'76 Midget 1500

Davey, currently the only source for tapered roller bearing replacements that are known to fit is through Winner's Circle http://www.spridget.com/catalog/23.gif  but there are other solutions in the works right now. Several people are working trying to find an over the counter replacement bearing that will work without any mods other than the thinning of the castle nut. I'll send you the information on what I had to do to convert my car. A bit of trouble but well worth it in my opinion.

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'73 Midget (V6)
'59 MGA (I6) under construction
'73 Lotus Europa

"There is a fine line between a hobby and mental illness"