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Making an Old Gear Box New Again

Last post 07-09-2009, 12:37 PM by motorbill66. 7 replies.
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  •  06-26-2009, 7:18 PM 19945

    Making an Old Gear Box New Again

    Gentelmen,

    It's me again. But this time I am armed with the experience of dismantling a very early TD gear box without braking anything (I think). I also now understand how 60 year old synchomesh works. Very cool.

    The mystery of the sliding out of third was solved when I found all the balls and springs from the top/3rd syncro hub in the bottom of the case. This gear box was put together before the balls were peened into their holes for retention and before the advent of the extended top/3rd selector shaft with its circlip. 

    I will replace the top/3rd selector shaft with the upgraded circlip arrangement, but I am wondering how to peen the balls into the top/3rd synchro hub?

    The shop manual (pg F.6) describes the peening as "..two square ended depressions at the end of each ball hole around the hub..."  but I am not really sure where to effect this modification.

    Should I make the peening in front and behind the ball hole or should I make the peens beside the holes?  

    Is there anywhere I can see a picture of this?

    Also. I understand the use of the dummy shaft for installing the lay shaft and all its pin bearings but is that done after the main shaft is returned to place? It seems like it would have to be. In addition, how are the pin bearings in the top gear housing put back in place? Using heavy grease or rubber bands? (excuse me, elastics?)

    Thanks.

     Stub 

  •  06-26-2009, 9:23 PM 19948 in reply to 19945

    Re: Making an Old Gear Box New Again

    Stub:  It really is a whole new driving experience when you finally understand what's going on in the gearbox as you move the shifter around!

    When your copy of Horst Schach's restoration manual arrives, your question about preening those sliding hub balls is answered - with photos - on Page 101.  Horst says it's not necessary to re-preen the balls on assembly (I'm thinking it was a factory assembly process for the individual hub part), and as long as you don't intend to dismantle the sliding hub again, it's not an issue.  The fun part will be trying to get all six balls and springs to stay in place as you move the exterior slider ring onto the hub.  I've seen suggestions to use a piston ring compressor or band clamp to hold the balls in position as you slide the outside ring on.

    Those needle bearings will be even more fun.  Horst uses a wooden dowel inserted into the layshaft to hold the greased needle bearings in position as the cluster gear is placed into the casing, then the cluster gear shaft is inserted, pushing the wood dowel out.  Motorbill66 uses a shortened old shaft to hold the needle bearings in place.

    Motorbill - any words of wisdom for Stub?

  •  06-27-2009, 12:40 AM 19949 in reply to 19945

    Re: Making an Old Gear Box New Again

    An old mechanic showed me how to peen the balls in place in the syncro hub. He just used a small center punch and lightly punched a small dimple on either side of the hole (about 1/16" back from the edge of the hole) after dropping the spring in place, just enough so the ball had to be pushed into the hole with the handle of a screwdriver.  Once done, the ball will stay in place while the rest of the balls are peened in place and the hub/gear are assembled.

     


    Cheers,
    Dave
    http://homepages.donobi.net/sufuelpumps/
  •  06-30-2009, 8:53 AM 19994 in reply to 19945

    Re: Making an Old Gear Box New Again

    Stub,

    The layshaft, with the roller needles, thrust washers, and dummy shaft, is the first thing into the box, though I suppose you could install some of the reverse details as well. Lay it into the bottom of the gearbox (hence its name) and leave it there untill the mainshaft is installed. Then, raise the gearbox to a vertical position to more easily jockey the laygear/shaft with thrust washers into position. While doing this, be sure not to allow the dummy shaft to suddenly fall out of position, thus letting the rollers fall into the space where the shaft belongs. I usually "stack" the new shaft into the hole so that it would follow the dummy in this case. Otherwise, you'll get even more practice assembling this little beauty!!

    One last hint. I've seen too many times where the rear flange has been tightened into place trapping the bulky felt "seal" between itself and the rear bearing and guard washer. Soon thereafter, the felt deteriorates, the end play becomes excessive, and jumping out of gear ensues. If that's all that happens, you have been living right!! Massive failure is also a possibility.

    I hope we've answered your questions adequately. If not, do repost. This box is not a bad piece of equipment for its day, but like the engine in a T Type, it demands exactness and attention to detail if it is to give good service. There is no "That's good enough." here. When you have it right on the money, that's just about adequate. 


    Motorbill
    From Lola to Land Rover, If it's British and has wheels, it's likely I've bloodied me knuckles thereupon
  •  07-03-2009, 7:15 PM 20062 in reply to 19994

    Re: Making an Old Gear Box New Again

    Thanks Bill,

    The rebuild is going slowly but I have a pretty good idea of how to proceed. I understand how to install the lay shaft, we'll see how that goes in time. I am not so sure how to get the main shaft and subsequent rollers in place. Grease or rubber bands? 

    I ended up peening the balls back into the 3rd / top syncro sliding hub. It had been suggested that I didn't need to peen them in their holes but I only have four fingers and thumb on each hand and the six balls with springs seemed a bit much. I also did not have a spare dog to sacrifice as a guide. It was easy to do and worked well.

    I will be putting in a new felt "seal" but I was unclear as to the problem you described which resulted in the seal failing. There is a recess in the rear housing for the felt so I hope that if I get it in the recess carefully and properly I shalln't have the problem you warned of.

    Thanks again,

    Stub 

     

     

     

  •  07-06-2009, 1:43 PM 20084 in reply to 20062

    Re: Making an Old Gear Box New Again

    Stub,

    Grease and massive quantities of patience.


    Motorbill
    From Lola to Land Rover, If it's British and has wheels, it's likely I've bloodied me knuckles thereupon
  •  07-07-2009, 9:14 PM 20113 in reply to 20084

    Re: Making an Old Gear Box New Again

    Sacrificial rubber bands did the trick nicely.

    Patience I have. But I could never make a living out of doing this. At the rate I work I would have to learn to live on pennys a day. It's a good thing I have a day job. 

    Any recommendation on the kind of gasket dressing to use when putting the big parts together?  

     

     

     

     

     

  •  07-09-2009, 12:37 PM 20135 in reply to 20113

    Re: Making an Old Gear Box New Again

    Stub,

    Most British car self employed mechanics have learned to live on pennies a day. Nobody whose wish it is to make a fortune would, in their right mind, choose this as a business. This is love and devotion. I think most of you guys realize this.

    Paper gaskets between metal surfaces are best secured and sealed with Permatex Aviation Style cement in the white plastic jar with a brush in the cap. Follow directions, and use liberally. Enjoy


    Motorbill
    From Lola to Land Rover, If it's British and has wheels, it's likely I've bloodied me knuckles thereupon