Moss Motors, Ltd

OK guys,

I want to cover this thoroughly and well. I don't have time right now, but can get to it later today or tomorrow. If I don't, bug me. I will do it.

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Motorbill
From Lola to Land Rover, If it's British and has wheels, it's likely I've bloodied me knuckles thereupon

No hurry Bill,

We're both off the road at the mo. Davey has no engine, and I have no steering

Ed

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I want my MGB

And add to Ed's comments that here in New England, we are awaiting a couple of snow storms over the next few days. I'll be out snow plowing rather than installing the engine, so a few days won't be a problem for me either.

Your effort is appreciated; take your time...no stress...and thanks in advance!

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On their death bed, nobody ever said, "Gee I wish I'd spent more time at work!"

It would seem that Mother Nature has decided to show us her bad side. We all seem to be getting a share of what Mad Mike is going through. So Motorbill you have a "captive" audience. Whenever you're ready......

Cheers...Rita

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Alive to drive British

Actually, we've gotten plastered pretty good here on the Eastern slope as well. I've been driving the big Ram through the white stuff for nearly a week now. At the price of diesel, I'd just as soon freeze in the TR7, but I need to be able to get up the hill to the house. And, while I'd probably make it, I just ain't in the mood for probably when it gets as cold as it's been. I'll see if I can free some time for writing tomorrow A.M. 

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Motorbill
From Lola to Land Rover, If it's British and has wheels, it's likely I've bloodied me knuckles thereupon

Oh, that's nothing. It's been slightly chilly here in California.

Terrible suffering...

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I want my MGB

Ed please clarify...What constitutes "slighty chilly"?  My morbid curiosity wants to know!!

Cheers...(slightly chilly) Rita

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Alive to drive British

Me too Ed! Please clarify.

I thought EVERYONE in San Francisco was slightly chilly and that your post was a redundancy!

Actually.....here's some more news...The snow in New England granted me a day off from the cherubs, the very day that me engine was ready for pickup, today! Long story short, it's in my shop now and the snow on it is currently melting!

Here's the list: new timing chain & sprockets, machined head, valve guide reaming, new main bearings, new rod bearings, new camshaft bearings, machining on the crank shaft, new gaskets all around AND a cup of coffee! Now for the damage, $740.80 for labor and $255.00 for the parts that Mr. Mechanic gave me the option to attain so that I could save money on his mark-up!

A note about the parts. I called Moss Tuesday at about 4:00 PM with the order to be drop shipped. Wednesday morning at about 9:00, I called the mechanic to tell him to expect the shipment....THEY WERE ALREADY THERE!!!!  Way to go MOSS!!!!!

I'm gearing up to clear allot of snow right now so the engine will just have to wait. Stay tuned to find out the optimum engine mount configuration for re-installation!

 

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On their death bed, nobody ever said, "Gee I wish I'd spent more time at work!"

Great news davey - sounds like your engine is going to work out well.

Oh, and slightly chilly (and yes that does describe some Northern Calif. folks ;)) means a very light touch of frost in the morning, with overnight temps in the 30's.

On the other hand, having grown up with wet, chilly British winters, I'm not remotely upset by this and am still cycling 15 miles to work in shorts and short sleeved jersey, happy to enjoy dry conditions and sunshine. This has gained some astonished stares from motorists and fellow cyclists alike.

Cheers,

Ed

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I want my MGB

Ed,

I'd like to see you cycling to work in shorts here today. It was three degrees F. when I got to work this morning. Mike, my engine builder said it was minus 6 at his house when he left. He's just a bit further east, out on the "flats". I don't like this weather, and you can't begin to imagine what it does to the energy bills in my 7,200 square foot building with 13 foot ceilings, except for the entrance bay and the fabrication room, which are more like 20 foot! I'm just going to have to raise my hourly rate to about $400.00. That sounds reasonable, right?

I want to do the whole break-in and oil thing justice, and today has been too crazy to allow time for it. But I'm not forgetting.....I think...

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Motorbill
From Lola to Land Rover, If it's British and has wheels, it's likely I've bloodied me knuckles thereupon

Bill - those temperatures are a whole different kettle of fish, and something I have never experienced. I'm just amused by the reactions of my fair weather Californian friends and family. The coldest cycling I have seen was probably probably around 20F on a still, frosty, beautiful morning through Oxfordshire countryside. This occasioned a jacket and cyclists leg warmers. I'm also party to a cycling forum, they have a whole section devoted to winter riding and there are some real tough nuts out there in the midwest etc. Studded tyres - yes, for pedal cycles - are a popular subject!

Surely I speak for all of us in looking forward to your thoughts on engine care and feeding.

Cheers,

Ed

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I want my MGB

Ed, The coldest cycling I've ever done was at 16F, just about the same as your 20 however mine was done on a Honda CB750C at 65 MPH between Wallingford and Bridgeport, Connecticut (about 35 miles, 70 for the round trip)!

Even wearing all my ski gear my body was numb.

Thank God the Sprite has a good heater! 

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On their death bed, nobody ever said, "Gee I wish I'd spent more time at work!"

Latest update.....

The engine is back in place although the recent New England snow storms have gotten in the way of hooking everything back up.

Within a day or two, I will be starting the power plant for the first time since the re-re-build. (A side note here, Mr. Mechanic showed me the bearing for # 2; the gorge in it looked like the Grand Canyon!) My question is, what oil should I be putting in it for those first RPM's? I asked Mr. Mechanic if there are any specific start-up instructions and he said, "bring it up to 2000 rpm for about 10 or 15 minutes, and then you'll be fine". When I asked him If I should use 30 weight rather than 20-50 for the break-in he responded, "The only thing new are all the bearings, timing chain, and sprockets...just let it run for a few minutes with 20-50 before you take her out".

 I'm scared! Do I follow his advice, or is there a better way?

Motorbill, can I get an early release on your novel's first chapter? How about you Ed, what did you run for start-up? Poolboy, where have you been...what do you say? Rita, I know it's cold up there, but can you advise?

After "rebuilding" this thing twice, I'd like to do it right this time! Help!

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On their death bed, nobody ever said, "Gee I wish I'd spent more time at work!"

davey do I detect a case of nerves? Buck up old boy it'll be o.k. My engine was just broken in when I got my "B" so I can't talk from experience. But I will post the same web site that I gave to Mad Mike earlier.It has a wealth of information and when presented at my car clubs meeting earlier this summer it raised a few eyebrows as well as a few questions.It's quite lengthy so I would suggest you hunker down with a good hot cuppa and draw your own conclusions. I think we should hear from our Forums Dr. House(Motorbill, this would be you) .

As for me I've got to go out and fire up the snow blower once again and try to move mountains of snow so that I'm not house bound another day!

Here is that site davey  congratulations here's to happy and safe driving.

www.netbug.net/blogmichael/?p=49

Cheers...Rita

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Alive to drive British

davey and all,

Before starting the engine, get some oil pressure. Remove the spark plugs and crank the engine over for thirty second bursts until you see pressure on the gauge. Do this any time the engine or the oil system has been apart.

It's too cold for 20W50, new engine or not. Put some 10W40 in the engine. The brand doesn't matter now. Don't idle it for too long, since the camshaft is already as broken in as it's going to get. However, don't go for much of a drive either. The first thing you want to do is get the engine up to normal operating temperature, and then shut it off. This would be the same procedure I'd use for a total rebuild as well, except that I always run the engine for at least twenty minutes at around 1800RPM. Having gotten to normal temperature and shut down, I next do the hardest part. Walk away from the thing and leave it over night. This is to allow it to come slowly down to ambient temperature.

We want the engine at ambient temperature so that everything is normalized for the cylinder head retorque. Loosen, and then torque, each head bolt/nut to specified torque in the order shown in the manual. You don't have to loosen very far. An eighth of a turn is quite sufficient. Use a click-stop torque wrench which is either relatively new or has been calibrated within memory. When you swing a torque wrench you want the "click" or the specified torque to be reached dynamically. That is, while the wrench is moving. Don't be shy. If you stop before the click occurs, you'll find that when you resume motion the click will take place before the fastener even moves. That is static or overcoming torque. It is a false reading. If this happens, start over on that bolt/nut. Plan the swing of your wrench so that you'll have plenty of space (arc) for the event to happen while in motion. Does it sound like I think this step is really important? It should.

Now check all the fluids, get the idle reasonable, and go for that ride. Don't expect miracles. The engine will probably need different tuning than it had before the rebuild. Make it a short ride, stopping here and there to check for leaks, say ten minutes. It's time for the first oil and filter change. Use the same weight oil you used to do the initial startup. Add some more camshaft break-in lube to the crankcase. I like the Kent stuff. It has all the goodies you need to keep the camshaft happy while running it in. This is the time to get all the tuning details right. Recheck the ignition timing and advance and adjust the idle mixture.

If this has been a total rebuild it's time to "seat" the rings. Not everybody believes this step is neccessary or that it actually accomplishes anything. I can't tell for sure, but I do it. It won't hurt anything, anyway. Get the car going at about 35 MPH in top gear and accellerate to 55 with a fairly heavy, but sensitive foot. Don't baby it, but don't lug it so hard it's bucking and chattering,either. Now slow down to 35 again, cruise for a few hundered feet and repeat the procedure. Do this four or five times. Then drive normally for several miles and enjoy the fruits of your labors. Your next oil change is due in fifty or sixty miles.

With these engines, I use 10W 40 in the late fall and winter, then switch to 20W50 for the late spring thru summer. I prefer Castrol. I used to use Duckham's 15W50, but I can't find it any more. Kendall is another good brand. My policy is to always use an additive now to replace the ZDDP that has been taken away from us. Strangely enough, STP in the red can has plenty of it, and it's not all that expensive either. There are other additives coming on the market all the time. I know some folks are using diesel oil. This would be convenient for me. I have the stuff here in the shop since I have a diesel truck. My understanding is that the ZDDP in diesel oil has now also been reduced, though I don't really know how far, because new diesel trucks are comming out with catalytic converters. I think it's wise to use an additive even after breaking in your engine. I've taken apart a LOT of engines, and you just wouldn't believe some of the lifters and cam lobes I've seen. Anyhow, on with the running in.

For the first eight hundred miles or so, don't have too much fun (high revs) and don't use a steady speed on the highway. Vary things a bit to avoid cyclic vibration. That droning cyclic sound indicates vibrations which can disturb the proper seating of components. Don't be fanatic about it, to the point where your fellow motorists are cheesed off at you, just accellerate now and then, and back off once in a while.

Proper running in can really pay off in the form of extended engine life and improved performance, but you'll throw it all away if you don't maintain the engine well. Overheating, especially while the engine is in it's "formative years" will equal many many miles of normal service. So will running with too rich a mixture. This can wash fuel down the cylinder walls and cause premature "erasure" of the cross-hatch patern, an important feature for retaining lubrication of the piston rings. Finally, regular oil/filter changes, not just respecting miles, but also time, are an important ritual for longevity.

I'm sure I've left questions unanswered. Ask them. I wanted to be thorough, but when I started concieving all this, I began thinking of things that should be done during assembly, installation, etc... blah... I tend toward the neverending monologue anyway, so I thought I'd just hit the high points and wait for suggestions, comments, questions, complaints, brickbats, (just what the hell is a brickbat, anyway?) So bring "em on.

Bill

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Motorbill
From Lola to Land Rover, If it's British and has wheels, it's likely I've bloodied me knuckles thereupon