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Sump seal leak 1973 Midget 1275

Last post 10-28-2007, 1:43 PM by davey. 11 replies.
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  •  10-14-2007, 6:03 AM 10178

    Sump seal leak 1973 Midget 1275

    After a nearly twelve month restoration I have noticed an oil leak at the rear of the engine and assume it's a sump seal or sump gasket gone bad....my bad for not replacing this and assuming the DPO had done this after he rebuilt the engine. None the less my question is can this repair be made with the engine in?

    Also how do we post pictures???


    Jim & Joann Bowlby
    Murfreesboro, TN
  •  10-14-2007, 7:55 AM 10179 in reply to 10178

    Re: Sump seal leak 1973 Midget 1275

    Don't take that engine out yet. Someone with more experience on them will come along shortly to fill you in better but there is no rear seal. There is a scroll at the rear to direct leaking oil back into the sump but it depends on maintaining a slight vacuum on the crankcase. Meanwhile, you can look through this forum for other threads on oil leaking. That should give you enough information to get started on tracing you ventilation system. If it was rebuilt then chances are excellent that you will fix the whole problem without removing much of anything. Best of luck to you.


    Bayless
    Never express yourself more clearly than you can think
    '48 Prefect
    '67 Sprite (project)
  •  10-14-2007, 8:00 AM 10180 in reply to 10178

    Re: Sump seal leak 1973 Midget 1275

    Absolutely!

    Put her up on 4 jack stands and go for it. There are two real concerns for which to watch.

    1. The cork gaskets that you will find that wrap around the main bearings in the front and back are longer than they have to be. You'll have to trim them down to fit. Also, this is the ONLY area where you'll use Permatex! Just a tiny dab where the cork mates with the paper gaskets (4 spots total).

    2. When you have the sump out, examine the areas around the bolt-holes. If they are not perfectly flat, they WILL leak. A good way to flatten them is to hang the lip of the sump on the edge of a strong straight edge, (I used my cast iron table saw). At this point the sump is in it's normal attitude - bolt holes up, drain plug down. To actually take the bend out of the areas around the bolt-holes, hold the round edge of a ball peen hammer centered in the bolt-hole while, (with your THIRD hand), use another hammer to gently tap the ball pein so that it straightens out the area of deformity. A final check of flatness is to place the sump upside down on a perfectly flat surface (again, I used my tale saw bed). You can use a flashlight under the sump to see if any light escapes anywhere, or what I did was use a piece of paper as a feeler gauge all around. You need that thing to be perfectly flat!

    When reassembling remember that over tourquing is bad! Screwing those bolts in too much will only mushroom out the holes and eradicate all of your work to flatten them. The oval shaped washers on those bolts are there for a reason, to help spread the force and minimize deformity, use them accordingly.

    All in all it's a doable job in a few hours by anyone with patience, tools and a lick of common sense. But remember, If you want to avoid a leak, ya gotta think like a drip!

    Good Luck, and keep us informed!

     


    On their death bed, nobody ever said, "Gee I wish I'd spent more time at work!"

    '68 Sprite 1275
    '76 Midget 1500
  •  10-21-2007, 4:10 PM 10273 in reply to 10180

    Re: Sump seal leak 1973 Midget 1275

    I noticed on my last oil change that the oil when poured in took along time to reach the sump....my question is could slightly blocked oil passages in the head have anything to do with crankcase pressure/vacuum?


    Jim & Joann Bowlby
    Murfreesboro, TN
  •  10-21-2007, 4:53 PM 10274 in reply to 10273

    Re: Sump seal leak 1973 Midget 1275

    Here's the short answer...No. The sump is not under pressure (else your dipstick would fly out)! If you had blockages in your passages, you'd have elevated oil pressure, not a sump leak.

    I don't know how bad your sump leak is, but this IS a British car, I swear those leaks were designed in just so you can tell that you still have oil! 


    On their death bed, nobody ever said, "Gee I wish I'd spent more time at work!"

    '68 Sprite 1275
    '76 Midget 1500
  •  10-22-2007, 11:30 AM 10280 in reply to 10274

    Re: Sump seal leak 1973 Midget 1275

    I don't exactly agree with Davey. It takes a lot more sump pressure to dislodge the dipstick than it does to lose a lot of oil out the back.

    A-Series Midgets seem to be prone to PCV issues. They really want a slight vacuum in the sump. Originally, your 1973 Midget had a hose connecting to each carb then joining in a Y before running to the odd little oil trap on the timing chain cover. This applied a slight vacuum to the sump. Fresh air was admitted through the orifice on the pipe coming off the top of the valve cover via a hose to the charcoal cannister. Make sure this is all in place before trying to work on the sump itself.

    David Lieb

    1972 Midget


    David Lieb
  •  10-27-2007, 5:52 PM 10727 in reply to 10280

    Re: Sump seal leak 1973 Midget 1275

    Everything seems to be connected.  Im wondering if too much oil could be the problem? The headscratcher is that the oil leak was not present before. We drove the car several hundred miles before starting the restoration last year.

     

     


    Jim & Joann Bowlby
    Murfreesboro, TN
  •  10-28-2007, 6:37 AM 10731 in reply to 10727

    Re: Sump seal leak 1973 Midget 1275

    Exactly how bad IS the leak? Does it leak when you just idle the car, or do you have to be in motion? How much are you loosing, and when?

    If it's just the rear cork gasket, that can be changed without removing the engine. All you'll need is a 7/16 socket, new gasket set, and some jack stands (not to mention T-I-M-E).

     


    On their death bed, nobody ever said, "Gee I wish I'd spent more time at work!"

    '68 Sprite 1275
    '76 Midget 1500
  •  10-28-2007, 7:30 AM 10733 in reply to 10731

    Re: Sump seal leak 1973 Midget 1275

    I drove the car just down the street while sitting on a milk crate (not a pretty picture) and noticed the leak when returning the car back to the jack stands. I estimate 8oz of oil had leaked out on the garage floor.  
    Jim & Joann Bowlby
    Murfreesboro, TN
  •  10-28-2007, 12:55 PM 10737 in reply to 10733

    Re: Sump seal leak 1973 Midget 1275

    Yes, I know of that milk crate seat too!

    A couple of things come to mind. Try just running the engine and not moving the car....see if it also leaks then. The other thing is that the seals may have just dried out if the engine hasn't run in a while. This happens sometimes and even MORE rare, once the gaskets saturate, they swell and "heal", but don't hold your breath!


    On their death bed, nobody ever said, "Gee I wish I'd spent more time at work!"

    '68 Sprite 1275
    '76 Midget 1500
  •  10-28-2007, 1:24 PM 10739 in reply to 10737

    Re: Sump seal leak 1973 Midget 1275

     davey

    Thanks for sticking in there with me!  I found the &^@(*!% leak!  It was the oil pressure sending tube. When in doubt look check the obvious.    

     


    Jim & Joann Bowlby
    Murfreesboro, TN
  •  10-28-2007, 1:43 PM 10740 in reply to 10739

    Re: Sump seal leak 1973 Midget 1275

    Often it helps just to bounce ideas off of other people.

    You realize of course, just how LUCKY you are!!!! I'm so happy for you that I think I'll have a beer!

    CheersBeer


    On their death bed, nobody ever said, "Gee I wish I'd spent more time at work!"

    '68 Sprite 1275
    '76 Midget 1500