Moss Motors, Ltd

Our Sites: Moss USA | Moss Europe
Welcome to Moss Motors, Ltd Sign in | Join | Help
in Search

clutch on '77 MGB

Last post 05-31-2009, 5:49 PM by Ed Holland. 76 replies.
Page 4 of 6 (77 items)   « First ... < Previous 2 3 4 5 6 Next >
Sort Posts: Previous Next
  •  04-29-2009, 10:37 AM 19224 in reply to 19221

    Re: clutch on '77 MGB

    So upon turning the key you just hear a click, the engine does not turn over. Motorbill66 is right, what you are most likely hearing is the starter relay. It is located on the passenger

    side engine compartment, just behind the bonnet prop attachment. For a 1977, the original relay would have been round with four wires attached. Most relays have been replaced with the square "Bosch ice cube" relay.

    The wire colors are black, white/red, white/brown, and brown.

    Black = ground.

    white/red = ign switch

    brown = positive, always hot.

    white/brown = relay to solenoid.

     

     I note you have already tested the white/brown at the solenoid. That seems to be working correctly.

     

    The way the circuit works is as follows:

    When you turn the switch, power is supplied via white/red wire to the relay. With power to the white/red at the relay, the relay closes, and the brown wire supplies the white/brown power to the solenoid. The solenoid engages the starter and also supplies the white/light green 12V to the coil. 

     

     

    To be sure, disconnect the black wire or white/red from the relay, turn the switch. Sound gone?  Power to white/brown gone?

     

    As far as the problem goes, make sure you have connected the white/brown and white/light green wire to the correct terminal on the solenoid. The white/light green goes to the ign terminal on the solenoid. Original Lucas solenoids for the Lucas 2M100 starter have different sized terminals which match the MG's wire terminals. But a great many MGs now have aftermarket solenoids with the same sized terminals, easily crossed in this situation.

     

    If not the above, then as enfoperfect relates; the battery is low or bad connection, or my personal favorite a bad solenoid.

  •  04-29-2009, 12:00 PM 19226 in reply to 19224

    Re: clutch on '77 MGB

    thamk you very much for breaking down some of this wireing for me.  i have been triing to follow the wiring diagrams in my manual, but they are soo busy, it makes it hard.  My starter relay is square with the terminals on the bottom of it.  I will check what you have suggested and try to follow all these wires and get back to you.  electrical wiring is still one of my weak pionts.  the last time this happened to me, i relaced my battery and my starter/soleniod (which does have the diff. size terminals) and the problem was an elec. connection from the coil to the distributor.  of course I have check those connections over and over already this time.  

    i even get the click when I use my jumper to try and start the engine.  I really don't believe that the batteery is low.  I leave it on a 2 amp trickle charge that automatically goes on and off to the batteries needs.  the charge constantly tells me it is fully charged.  but, i may have to look into this as a problem as well anyway.  

    the solenoid is really what I am thinking that my problem is.  last time i took my starter up to auto zone to have it checked they told me that it was bad.  $130 later, someone else tested it in my garage and said it was still good.  so I don't really trust them to take it up there again. 

    thank you,

    joel


    1976 MGB with a 1977 engine
  •  04-29-2009, 12:34 PM 19227 in reply to 19226

    Re: clutch on '77 MGB

    mgb 76,

    the wires at the starter relay are just as you said.  when I disconnected the white/red wires ig just got the buzzing ignition.  when I disconnected the black wire, I got the same...ignition buzzing.  i hooked the up again and put my hand on the relay and the clicking is deffinatly comming from the relay, I can feel it click.  

    So, does this mean that the relay is bad?  Can I repair it or is this somthing I will just have to replace?

    with all the wires hooked up, My test lamp lights up on each terminal (except the black ground).  i have already checked that the white/brown light at the solenoid.  Will this mean then that the solenoid is bad and not the relay?  I havce another starter soleniod that is said to be good and it doesn't do anythig different then the one I am using now.  

    I am thinking that if the relay is giving power out of it, then it will be working correctly.  I am going to try and trace each of the wires an check the other ends with my test lamp.

    thank you for helping me narrow this problem down.

    joel


    1976 MGB with a 1977 engine
  •  04-30-2009, 5:51 AM 19245 in reply to 19227

    Re: clutch on '77 MGB

    The relay is good; you are getting power to the white/brown at the solenoid. All indicators point to a bad solenoid. I have found the solenoid fails first, long before the starter needs rebuilding.
  •  05-05-2009, 5:51 PM 19328 in reply to 19245

    Re: clutch on '77 MGB

    new solenoid is due tomorow.  finally, my waiting will be over.
    1976 MGB with a 1977 engine
  •  05-06-2009, 5:57 PM 19334 in reply to 19328

    Re: clutch on '77 MGB

    ok,  it can't be the solenoid...$45 for a new one, and i still have the same problem.  this is frustrating.  

    I have a full charge on my battery...i checked the connections at the battery...checked the grounding wire at the rear motor mount under the gearbox...even tested the grounding wire with my test light, and it lit up.   I can get a good ground at numerous places on the engine which tells me that I have a good ground on the engine,  and that comes from that grounding wire, right?  so it can't be a bad ground.  

    the wire coming from the starter relay to the solenoid is connected to the larger sized terminal and it lights up my test lamp when the ignition is cranked.  The small terminal from the soleniod to the coil does not light up my test lamp.  

    the fuel pump and the starter relay seem to both get power...the solenoid gets power but won't send it back out to the coil...this is a brand new solenoid, so if that wasn't the problem, then what else could it be????


    1976 MGB with a 1977 engine
  •  05-07-2009, 7:06 AM 19338 in reply to 19334

    Re: clutch on '77 MGB

    Whoa!

    You say you got the test lamp to light on the ground strap?? While it was connected to ground?? Please confirm. If you got the lamp to light on the ground strap itself, you have no ground. Something is WAY messed up. Please confirm.


    Motorbill
    From Lola to Land Rover, If it's British and has wheels, it's likely I've bloodied me knuckles thereupon
  •  05-07-2009, 10:22 AM 19340 in reply to 19338

    Re: clutch on '77 MGB

    Sorry you are still having problems. Please do as motorbill suggests and get back to him. His advice is always outstanding.

    You can also create a temporary ground using jumper cables. With the battery to car body cable still attached, connect one the "black" cable clamps to the negative battery post. Connect the other end to top starter securing bolt. Try it now. Does it turn over?

  •  05-07-2009, 4:53 PM 19346 in reply to 19338

    Re: clutch on '77 MGB

    motorbill,

    I don't know if i confused you or your confusing me.

    Here's what I did...the ground strap is hooked up as it should be (car body to the motor mount at the gearbox).  I clamped the end of my test lamp the the middle of the ground strap and (using a wire to extend the reach of my test lamp) touched the other end to the brown wire at the fuse box near the coil under the bonnet.  when doing this, the test lamp lit up.  As it should, right?  The ground strap would be my ground and the brown wire is my possitive.  

    I only did this test to try and confirm my ground.  I feel that I do have a good ground on the car, unless I am not understanding something.  If I unhook the ground strap, I would not be able to establish a ground connection on the engine with my test lamp, correct?  keep in mind also that the car is up off the ground on 4 jack stands...i don't know if that makes any difference.

    Even though I believe that my battery is in good shape, I am going to run some tests on that as well while I am awaiting your response.  First I am going to try to jump it with my truck, then go from there.  We have already been through this battery issue in one of my previous threads.  where I had to replace it.  

     

    joel


    1976 MGB with a 1977 engine
  •  05-07-2009, 4:59 PM 19347 in reply to 19340

    Re: clutch on '77 MGB

    mgb76,

    Are you saying to connect the other black cable to the starter bolt that holds the starter to the soleniod, or the bolt on the solenoid that the possitive battery cable should go?  I am assuming that you mean the bolt which holds the solenoid to the starter.  please confirm.  And I am not using the red cables for anything, right?  So, i would hook up these black cable as you describe and then try to crank the ignition...the starter should then work?  the solenoid also?  would that send power up to my coil from the solenoid as well?  if it works that is.

     

    joel


    1976 MGB with a 1977 engine
  •  05-08-2009, 8:04 AM 19350 in reply to 19347

    Re: clutch on '77 MGB

    He meant the bolt that mounts the starter to the engine. If you connect to the solenoid hot lead you will get a really big spark, probably jump back very quickly and most likely hurt yourself in the process. The goal here is to ensure that you have a ground or return path for the current back to the battery. You previous post says that your strap is making contact with the chassis but can't say it does with the engine. Even if there is contact to light a test lamp, it could still be inadequate for the amount of current the starter draws. Oh, I'm gonna guess that jumping with your truck will not help.

     


    Bayless
    Never express yourself more clearly than you can think
    '48 Prefect
    '67 Sprite (project)
  •  05-08-2009, 8:08 AM 19351 in reply to 19347

    Re: clutch on '77 MGB

    Not to the solenoid.
    To the actual bolt used to connect the starter to the engine/transmission. I am basically insuring you are getting a good ground from the battery(negative post) to the engine. The red cable is not used.

    At this point I would not worry about the coil. First get the starter to actually engage.

  •  05-08-2009, 10:20 AM 19352 in reply to 19351

    Re: clutch on '77 MGB

    i tried to jump the battery with my trucks battery...nothing happend.  I hooked the black cable of my jumper cables to my negative (ground) post of my battery and the other end to my starter bolt which holds it to the engine...nothing happened there either...all I every get is a click from the relay.   and still, with that ground coming from the battery, my test lamp lights at the terminal from the relay to the soleniod(at the solenoid), but not at the terminal frome the solenoid wich goes to the coil.  and my starter does not do anything.

    joel


    1976 MGB with a 1977 engine
  •  05-08-2009, 11:07 AM 19353 in reply to 19352

    Re: clutch on '77 MGB

    ok,  I think that i am getting somewhere now.

    Using my trucks battery, i hooked the jumper cables to it(red to red, black to black; on the other end, i hooked the black to my starter(the extra one I had sitting on the bench)  and touched the red to the terminal which the white/brown wire would attach to on the solenoid...complete sucsess...the starter moved out and turned.  i then did the same with the extra solenoid I had sitting on the bench...it also pushed out on the piston.  Then I hooked it up to the starter/solenoid in the car...it worked.

    That got me thinking that it IS in fact a bad battery.  So, kicking myself back to the house to dig out my battery reciept and figuring out my prorated charge for exchanging it, I thought, lets try one more test first.

    It did the same thing with the starter solenoid in the car.  I took it out to bench test it the same way, but this time using my MGB's battery...guess what...It worked.

    So, this would then mean that it is a bad ground connection, right?  As far as i can see, i have everything hooked up correctly with the battery cable and the ground strap.  Can someone explain this whole thing for me, maybe there is something that I am missing and just don't realize it.  I am going to put my starter solenoid back in the car now and then start looking at this ground problem some more.

     

    joel


    1976 MGB with a 1977 engine
  •  05-08-2009, 3:07 PM 19364 in reply to 19353

    Re: clutch on '77 MGB

    fireman,

    It sounds like you're on the right track. Remember, as enfoprefect indicated, a connection good enough to light up a half watt (not wit) test lamp bulb shows only that there IS a connection. A solenoid will draw many many amps, and the starter many more. If the resistance in one of the connections is too high, you'll make plenty of heat, but not much motion.


    Motorbill
    From Lola to Land Rover, If it's British and has wheels, it's likely I've bloodied me knuckles thereupon
Page 4 of 6 (77 items)   « First ... < Previous 2 3 4 5 6 Next >