Moss Motors, Ltd

I am ready to embark on my second A, and thought that i would pass on what I found to be the very wise words of John Twist of University Motors Ltd in Michigan.  Take it easy on your disassembly.  If you remove headlights, restore them, bag & tag em. As you go thru these systems, you will not have a collection of parts, but a building car.

Todd Clarks parts fit.  I suggest them versus others.  Lower frustration factor.

Continuously check craigs list and ebay for parts.  Sometimes there are excellent bargains.

Enjoy the journey.

Rich

I’ve had very good luck with Zip-Strip and a Makita with a wire wheel/wire cup. More advise, prime any steel as soon as you can, you’ll be surprised how quickly it rusts.

I found that some "scotch brite" discs on a 4" grinder did a great job of striping the paint off the aluminum hood and trunk lid on my project. Didn't clog up with old paint and didn't heat up the surface much if used with a light touch. Leaves a nice surface for primer as well. I found the kit on e-bay for around $25 including the adaptor for the grinder. The pads use a velcro type attachment to the adaptor and are easy to peel off and change when they get worn.

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'73 Midget (V6)
'59 MGA (I6) under construction
'73 Lotus Europa

"There is a fine line between a hobby and mental illness"

Once again, I truly appreciate all the great advice!

I have another question for anyone with a suggestion.

Do I remove the body first and leave the chassis and drivetrain or do I remove the drivetrain first and lift the body off the bare chassis?

I am thinking it would be easier to remove the body first to give easy access to the drivetrain but I have never worked on a MGA before.

Any recommedations or suggestions will be greatly appreciated and put to use.

Everyday I work on the car I get more excited!

Charles 

Charles,

Do not remove the body first! This body is actually not very strong in bend and twist when removed from the chassis. Also, if there is any reconstruction to be done on the rocker panel and doorpost area it should actually be done with the body in place, as this is the only way the parts will ever fit properly, and the doors will have nice gaps. When you are indeed ready to remove the body, you will need to weld a couple of braces across the top of the cockpit to retain the shape for later refitting.

So, remove the engine, gearbox, interior, suspension, rear axle, wiring, etc. etc. until you have a body on frame. Then remove the floor so you can see what you have "body rust wise". Then it'll be time to proceed. Make sense?

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Motorbill
From Lola to Land Rover, If it's British and has wheels, it's likely I've bloodied me knuckles thereupon

Bill,

Thanks for the excellent advice.  I was going to take the body off first.  I will definately follow your advice and brace the body before removal.  If there are any other tips or tricks I would love to hear them.

Thanks again for all your great advice!

Charles

Charles,

Just to do the reconstruction around the door before you remove the body. Unless you have a body jig (I only know of one in existance) you need to do it this way. Enjoy.

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Motorbill
From Lola to Land Rover, If it's British and has wheels, it's likely I've bloodied me knuckles thereupon

Bill or anyone,

I have been looking over the MGAguru web site on his rocker panel reconstruction and must say, WOW.  I am some what proficient in metal work but is it really feasible to hand form all the metal or is it more practical to buy the parts and install?  If buying is the way to go, is there any certain brand or make you would recommend?  I have seen the rockers and pillars in several catalogs but I haven't bought anything yet so I don't know about the quality available from each supplier.  What gauge metal was the original and are the replacement panels made of the same grade?  Are the replacement parts Chinese steel or American steel or British Steel (that's the name of an old Judas Priest album by the way).  Time is not an issue with me so hand forming isn't based on that but is it do-able for a person with average metal working skill?

Another fresh problem I have discovered is with the firewall.  Some one has removed the engine and trans as a unit before and the way I know this is the moron who did it cut out the firewall with a torch to make more room!  Are there any exact measurements available I can use when I reweld a patch so I can make it to the perfect size?

Thanks again for any and all advice.

The proud owner of a basket case that you WILL see on the road again.

Charles

Charles,

Seems I'm a little late in this discussion, but welcome to the mild insanity of MGA restoration.  From your messages I know you have far more experience than the average Joe who takes on a full restoration project.  The prime ingredients in final success are a passion and determination to see it through without too much delay.  If you just keep working on it regularly it will eventually be finished.  Anything you don't know about this specific model you can learn along the way.

Others have already turned you on to most of the right books and web sites.  I don't see prior mention of a couple of other useful MGA forums.  You should at least check into
the UK "green board" MGA BBS here: http://www2.mgcars.org.uk/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=mgbbs
and the MG Experience MGA forum here: http://www.mgexperience.net/phorum/list.php?

Body repair and restoration will be about 70% of the project labor, but maybe only 20% of the project cost.  It is mostly grunt work and not so much cost in materials.  Frame and running gear rebuild is almost trivial by comparison, as long as you leave the engine and gearbox under the workbench until body and chassis are finished.  On that path you can also delay any decision on drive train mods until near the end.  The only good reason (other than personal gratification) to set an engine in the chassis early on is if you know that it will be something that will not bolt into the original space and mountings.  Once the restoration work is done (everything clean and painted), the reassembly work goes relatively fast.  If you plan it right you don't need to spend money on engine and trim parts until about the day the body will be mated to the chassis, and then you get to write the big checks for the stuff you need to make it complete.

There is (or at least was) an MG club in Oklahoma City.  Their web site link is currently broken, but you can find older copies of the web site here: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.mgcarclubok.org
There are also some phone numbers found there (if they still work).
    MG Car Club of Oklahoma
    http://www.mgcarclubok.org  (currently broken link)
    1021 NW 67th, Oklahoma City, OK 73116
    Don Perry, Editor (405) 842-7023

As fond as I am of NAMGAR, I don't suppose that membership would be of much help with your restoration.  They publish a pretty magazine style newsletter six issues per year, and they stage a GT (Get Together) somewhere in North America once a year, mostly of interest for those with running cars.  There used to be some technical information on their web site, but that was removed when they published a tech book for sale.  Their most important contribution to your project might be a target date for the first GT you may be able to attend with your finished car.

Others have already mentioned my web site http://MGAguru.com, with over 1400 web pages of tech information of MGA.  Perhaps the more important part of that web site is the always open e-mail link.  If you can stump me with an MGA question that is not already covered on my web site, it may lead to some research and another tech page.

Chemical stripping and electro etching is an easy way to get to bare metal and also remove rust, but it is getting quite expensive these days with all the EPA regulations and enviro-taxes.  Media blasting is very quick to bare metal, likely cheaper than professional chemical stripping, as long as you keep the blaster away from the aluminum panels.  I have found that most of the original rust goes away when you cut out cancered panels and weld in new metal.  If you do the repair work before having it stripped, then the stripping will be easiest and least expensive, and it cleans up your metal repairs at the same time.

I recently removed all paint form the outer body surface of my MGA with a 4-inch angle grinder and sanding flap discs (using a slower large disc sander for the alloy panels).  My car was not a total rust bucket, mostly only needing the body sill replacement, as it had previously been painted all underneath with prior work.  Restoration of a virgin car will almost certainly require stripping everything inside the body that can only be done with chemicals or blasting.

The MGA body in good condition is quite a ridged structure that can be lifted and handled without need of any internal bracing.  Problem is, most "never restored" MGAs will have badly rusted body sills, many so bad that the body would come off in pieces.  If the frame is still structurally solid enough to hold the body in alignment, then the best approach is to do all of the internal body repairs while it is still on the frame.  Then you can lift it off to do underbody cleanup and painting.

If you do remove the body first, and it is not structurally sound, then you will most likely need to put it back on the frame as a jig for realignment.  The MOST IMPORTANT KEY to making the MGA body fit together and function is to start in the middle and build the body around the doors.  Make hinges and latches work first, then fit up the body sills and rocker panels, and finish by aligning the fenders for nice panel gaps.

As to making your own body panels, .... Note that all of the internal lower body parts are flat stock with bends, so generally easy to hand form, and small flanges are pretty easy.  If you make your own they will be formed to fit, so no problem with market parts that may not fit the first time.

The only lower internal parts that gave me a slow time were the long box panels, as the two long bends are somewhat tough and slow to hammer form.  Even if you have access to a large  press brake there is still come hand forming here as a couple of the bends have varying angle over the length of the part.  I spent two days figuring out how and hammering up the first one, and one day on the second one.  If I had to do it again I might make two in one day, but it is still not an economical proposition unless your time is very cheap or free.  I went through the exercise primarily to show that it could be done if you were on a shoestring budget with more time than money.  Those pieces are under $100 each in the commercial market.

I have not made any extensive amount of outer contour body panels, only a few small patch pieces.  For larger contour panels you likely need an English roller and a flange roller and some experience to pull it off.  The cost of those tools and the learning curve are not viable for a first or single restoration.  I bought rocker panels, and I did a little patching in the lower fenders, but otherwise all of my outer panels were generally reusable.

Beware of a large variety of ill fitting body panels on the market.  Ask questions about specific pieces, try to find the good ones to buy and avoid the ill fitting ones as much as possible.  You may find the hard way that making your own panel is no more time consuming than fitting up some of the bad commercial parts.

Original MGA body sheet metal is mostly 18 Ga (0,048") inside and out, two pounds per square foot, thick enough for generally easy welding.  MGA frame metal is mostly 14 Ga (0.075") flat stock and round tubing, a little tougher to bend but easier to weld.  Nationality of the steel may be irrelevant these days, as long as it is thick enough. I didn't bother to ask what country my flat sheet steel stock came from, but I am well aware that foreign mills have mostly put the American makers out of business some time ago.

On your torched out firewall, exactly which panel is it?  The sheet metal panel above the tunnel and below the frame goalpost is a removable piece screwed to the front of the goalpost.  Good used panels pop up on eBay fairly often.  If someone torched the goalpost cross tube, then you will have some welding repair to do.

Good luck, and keep asking questions as required.

Barney Gaylord
1958 MGA with an attitude
http://MGAguru.com

The best source for the interior sheet metal (F sections etc.) is Todd Clarke, CSR,  90 W. Swamp Rd., Doylestown, PA 18901. The e-mail that I have for him is: clarkespares@worldnet.att.net.  He is basically a one-man operation and may take a little time before he gets back to you, but the fit and quality of his parts are very good. As for the firewall cut out; mine has been hammered back a little, so can't really help you.

Sorry it has taken me so long to reply but I have been on a 2 month hiatus from my MGA.  Working too many hours (I work for the Dept of Defense) and helping a friend rebuild his daughters wrecked Skylark.  Plus it is very, very cold in central OK and my shop isn't heated, 2" of ice on the ground right now and 22 degrees.

 Barney,

 I wish there was a way I could thank you enough for your advice, web site and ethusiasm for helping other people.  I should have done more research before I ask the question about the firewall panel, I have figured out it is a replacable panel.  I have started doing some research on your web site and it is amazing, what a great help for all MGA owners!

Thank you to everyone for the advice and recommendations, they will all be put to use.

 The weather is supposed to break in another 2 weeks so I will be back on my MGA hot and heavy.  I'm working by myself and taking my time so I plan on having the car completely dis-assembled and restoring parts by this fall and on the road by Fall 2010-Spring 2011.  When I started I read alot of experiences where people took 3-6 years to restore an MGA, now I see why.  I'm anxious to get is done but I don't want to get burned out on it so I'm hoping for a 2-3 year frame-off restoration.

Thank you again to everyone for all your kind words, advice and support.

Another proud MGA owner.

Charles

Charles Stemm:

I just inherited an MGA 1500 rodster, 1956 (I think).  No title, the ID plate is rusted to almost dust and I can decifer 5 numbers off of it.  This car is a total BASKET CASE.  All the parts seem to be there but I don't know what I am looking for.  I want to do a total frame off restoration of this vehicle but I have never even driven a European car before, Amerian all the way.  I inherited this car from a very dear family friend after his death so I have no choice but to make this car absolutely beautiful again.  I have already restored a 1967 Mercury Cougar, 1974 Chevy Truck and a frame off on an 1985 Toyota Pick-up so my mechanical skills are very compitent with a complete shop.  I am not going to even start on it until a get the proper books in my hands that begin with dis-assembly.

I am looking for any advice I can get on everything.  Which books to aquire, which parts suppliers, which clubs to join?  Should I run away screaming and never look back?

Any advice anyone can give me on any aspect of this car or restoration would be greatly appreciated.

My friend purchased this car about 1978 and I fell in love with it the first time I saw it.  It was driven in the Ft. Worth, TX area for about 15 years with very little care and maintenance.  It then set parked in a back yard for at least 10 years and 3 days ago I trailered it home to the Oklahoma City area.

I'm ready to spend the next 2-5 years building a head turner.    P.S. I just found out it is a bonnett.

hope this will help you. i have seen this from google. they are discussing topics about recall for mercury and mercury repair. so want to share this. just see the link. good day.

Charles Stemm,

 

If you're still out there; have you finished you MGA yet?  Still plugging along?