Moss Motors, Ltd

From: David Sent: Wed 6/18/2008 20:58
To:  (Lou)
Subject: RE: (Moss Motors, Ltd) Email from Sprite_Lou

Yes, I'd like to see those switches. They may have been added by the
"plumber" to control fog lights and who knows what else. The only toggle
switch you should have in your entire car would be for the dashboard lights,
and it should be on the left side of your steering column....but
wait...yours is a 67 hu... I may be wrong there, I'd have to look it up.

Where are you located anyway? This sounds like a project car that I'd like
to see! I'm in Connecticut.

The break light switch is bugging me. Others on the forum would know off the
tops of their greasy heads. I have a 68 Sprite so there may be some
differences especially since yours HAD been positive ground.

In any case, I'm sure that you'll get her back on the road. It will take
work, $$$, and time, but she'll live again!

 -----Original Message-----
Sent:   Wednesday, June 18, 2008 11:44 PM

Too funny...you crack  me up!  Wish we were closer, i'd like to have a beer
with you!

Anyway, oddly enough, the "plumber" (no doubt a graduate of
Convoluted-University") who must have done some electrical work on her,
decided to use RED for BOTH battery cables....guess I was just astute enough
to place the one attached  to the firewall onto the NEG battery terminal.
Unfortunately, there was no battery in it when I brought her home so I had
nothing to compare to.

On to the brake lights, I took the cover off the master cylinder box and the
are absolutely zero wires coming out/into that box & no indication of a
switch ever being present.  A local spridget guy told me there was no such
switch located there on my car and directed me to that one on the psgr side
(it sits atop the 4 way) in line with the brake fluid lines....i'm kinda
REALLY confused on that now..... I even crawled up into the foot well
thinking there was a plunger type switch behind the arm of the brake
pedal-still nothing there.

At any rate, the headlights (along with lots of other things) i'm confident
that rust and verdigris has taken its toll on her and will just take each
lug, wire one at a time and get them cleaned or replaced until stuf starts
workin!  By the way, is there some reference manual that tells you what each
toggle switch on the dash is for?   Ine has three toggle switches:  one has
3 positions, and the others are 2 position switches -- not sure what they're
suppose to do.

Perhaps I should take some close up pictures of the master cylinder box &
dash so you can see what I mean...would you be interested?

Thanks a million,
Lou

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 20:14

Hold your horses there, louieboy!

You wrote that "the cable going to the firewall was the negative battery
post cable (even though its shielding is also red)" That is a clear
indication that it IS NEGATIVE GROUND! Like I told you, I've seen some
convoluted wiring!

Most things on the car are non-polar meaning that it doesn't matter which
way the electrons flow through them. Light bulbs, many fuel pumps, relays
(the thing that click) are all non polar and will work just the same if
current is reversed.

No need to buy a 9V battery, you've already done that test! When you hooked
up your 12V battery and saw the fuel gauge go up, how was the battery
connected? If the battery- terminal was to the chassis (the red wire on your
car), then I'm going to assume that the car has been changed over to
negative ground, otherwise the gauge needle would have been buried the wrong
way. The gauge IS polar, and the needle swing direction is dependant on the
direction of current flow. ..Man this is a good one! Really, post this and
see what others think, but I'm guessing that it has been changed over to
NEGATIVE ground.

On to some other stuff you wrote. The break lights are independent of that
pressure switch. That switch (located on the right side wall of the engine
compartment) will turn on the red light smack dab in the middle of your
tachometer and speedometer. It will engage if there is a big enough pressure
difference between your front and rear break lines. That's ALL it does. Your
actual break light switch is on the other side of the car (drivers side),
attached to the box where your break and clutch master cylinders are. You
can actually see the switch and it's wires without removing anything. You
can connect those two wires together right at the switch terminals to which
they are soldered with a mini jumper wire. This action simulates the break
being depressed. If your lights go on when you do this, then you have a bad
switch. If they don't, then the problem is after the switch, most likely a
bad ground by the bulbs.

As for the headlights, again, check the grounds! They like to build up
oxidation and other verdigris that inhibit current flow.

I'm very glad to see that you have manuals on the way. That's the best
investment that you can make for your car.

Good luck!



-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 4:18 PM
Subject: RE: (Moss Motors, Ltd) Email from Sprite_Lou


Wow Davey!  Now that's what I call an A-N-S-W-E-R!!  How can ever thank
you!?!

I will pick up a 9V battery today.  I must admit, I should have asked this
question before putting a battery in the car and (duh) hooking up the
battery cables to it - I just presumed (hate it when I do that!) the cable
going to the firewall was the negative battery post cable (even though its
shielding is also red) - the other one goes to the right place.  Here's the
funny - when I hooked up the battery to the car and turned the key on, the
fuel pump began to operate!  Something that I'm sure used to be gasoline
came spitting out the fuel filter hose!!  When I turned the key to ignition,
I also can hear a "click" noise which I presume is the starter relay or
something (engine and gearbox are removed right now).  I've also got a
handful of the dash board lights working in addition to the turn signals and
parking lights working - the horn is missing so I'll have to trace that out.
I just can't seem to get the dog-gone headlights or the brake lights to
work - I'll replace the bulbs first before searching for a different cause
on them.  Although, the brake lights not working may be related to that
pressure switch in the brake line.  And yes, the fuel sending unit works
too!  It indicated a little less than half full and that's approximately
what I recently drained out of the tank before I removed it.  Once a couple
of manuals arrive that I ordered, I can also figure out what the 3 toggle
switches on the dash are for.

I was mainly asking the negative/positive earth question because, (you're
not gonna believe this) I found and won a complete radio console assembly on
eBay this week - it has the hazard light switch, indicator light for same,
cigar lighter and even the original British Leyland Radio!!  Moss has just
the box for over $200 - if I want the speaker screen too, that would make it
a total of $300 - And I got this thing for $75 bucks!!  I don't particularly
care if the radio even works but it'll look nice installed there.  It got me
thinking though, whether or not the radio is set for positive earth or
negative and then, what my car really is setup for.  If the radio does work,
I'd hate to be the cause of it suddenly NOT working b/c I hooked it up wrong
or that the radio is wired to be positive earth.

I will heed your advice and try this trick when I get home tonite - And will
also post this string on the forum - your answer is just too good not to
share!!

Thanks a million - I hope you don't mind, but I have a feeling I'll be
tapping you for advice (electrically speaking) in the future as I try to
bring this LBC back from the dead..  :-)

All the best,
~Lou
  _____

Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 3:44 PM
Subject: FW: (Moss Motors, Ltd) Email from Sprite_Lou


-----Original Message-----
From: "David Feda" <davefeda@comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 9:20 PM
To: "loumeg@msn.com" <loumeg@msn.com>
Subject: RE: (Moss Motors, Ltd) Email from Sprite_Lou
Oh I'm quite sure that it's an Austin Healey MK IV if it's a 67. The MK III
had a 1098 engine while the MK IV introduced the 1275 along with a REAL
convertible top (one that actually folds down on a frame rather than having
to be removed from the car). The Mk IV also has a smog pump on the 1275
A-series engine. By the way, here's what your chassis# means, H (Austin
Healey), A (A-series engine), N (two seater), 9 (series), L (left hand
drive), 72041 (actual serial number).

Your confusion may come from the fact that it's cousin, the MG Midget was
always a mark behind. In other words, the Sprite MK IV is the same car as
the Midget MK III, the Sprite MK III was the Midget MK II, get it?

Now, onto your question, since the negative battery cable is attached to the
chassis, then by definition, it is negative ground. But are you sure that
wire is actually supposed to be the negative connection to the battery? I've
seen some convoluted wiring in my day! Just because it's black doesn't
necessarily mean it goes to the negative battery terminal (especially if the
last owner was a hack!).

Here's the strange part now. A check of the schematics for the MK IV show
that the European cars were POSITIVE ground while the U.S. cars were
negative ground beginning with HAN-9-72041. So, according to the
documentation, your car should be POSITIVE ground! It may however have been
changed over at some point (not too uncommon). If you're catching a little
confusion on my part too, you're very astute!

I would have to assume that your car is either positive ground with an
incorrect battery cable, or that it has been changed over at some point.

I guess what I would do to check is to use the fuel gauge as an indicator.
Get a 9-volt battery; disconnect the sender unit from the fuel gauge;
connect the battery to it and the chassis, and see which way the needle
goes! If it goes up (to about ? full) with the battery + where the sender
wire should be and the battery - connected to the chassis, then you have a
negative ground car (well at least you have a negative ground gauge). If you
do this and the needle gets buried the wrong way, then you have a positive
ground situation. 9 volts is good to use because it SHOULDN'T destroy the
gauge if you burry the needle.

This IS actually a great question for the forum. Not so much if your vehicle
is negative or positive ground; the chassis number indicates that it's
positive ground. The real question here is how can you determine if it's
been changed!

I am an Electronics guy; the Austin Healey is just my passion. There are
others on the forums that have many common sense, automotive related pearls
of wisdom. Where I see electrons flowing, they see CARS, and although I may
be able to articulate the finer points of potential differences, resistivity
and eddy currents with an eye to coefficients of temperature and dielectric
constants, they'll surprise you with quick checks that I would never think
of!

I would recommend copying and pasting this whole correspondence into the
forum and watch the response.this would be a good one!

Good luck and welcome to the club!



-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 8:17 PM
Subject: (Moss Motors, Ltd) Email from Sprite_Lou
Importance: Low


This email was sent from a user at Moss Motors, Ltd. Replying
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email.

Sent From: Sprite_Lou
Subject: Hey Davey
__________________________________
Hey Davey - Lou here from MM Forum -- wonder if you could answer what i hope
is a silly question (i'm too embarassed to post it):
 How can i verify this car i got ('67 Sprite) is a negative or positive
grounded system?  It was fairly torn apart when i got it - VIN and all other
tags are missing although, through the DMV license plate that was on it
last, the VIN turns out to supposedly be:  HAN9-L-66769.  The last "title"
said it was registered as a MK 4, but I'm seeing some info scattered around
that make me think it's a MK 3.
All i can say is that the "negative" battery cable is connected to the
firewall - does that constitute a "negative earth" system setup?  Oh yeah,
it's a LH Drive too.
Thanks in advance for helping out a LBC neophyte   Big Smile
~Lou